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IGD seem to be common on recent purchases

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Oelewapper, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor. Thread Starter

    The last two years I started to notice that I have a lot of new records that produce a lot of noise near the center, especially on the left channel during loud parts.
    At first, I thought that my equipment wasn't set up properly or something wrong with it.
    Checked with multiple MM cartridges (mostly Ortofon, but also Grado and AT) and an MC (Benz Micro Glider SL).
    All produce the same issues, even after checking the settings.

    Things I've checked and tried out are:
    - VTF using a digital scale
    - VTA using an acrylic adjustment block and torpedo level on tonearm
    - Anti-skating using a blank record and dedicated test record
    - Azimuth using an acrylic adjustment block and a mirror
    - Aligned cartridges both using a Stevenson protractor and the Technics overhang gauge that came with my turntable
    - Leveled turntable using two different bubble levels and torpedo level
    - Set the load capacitance/resistance according to specs
    - Even checked the tonearm resonance to be within the specified range of 8 to 12Hz
    - Last but not least, I tried various cleaning methods for both the styli and the record

    So I suppose that the settings can't be the issue or am I missing something?
    I have the same distortion on some older records, but it seems to be common with these newer records...

    Because of that, my question is: how common is it for new records to have IGD issues and do other people have similar experiences?
     
    sharedon and luckybaer like this.
  2. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    What records are these and who mastered them?
     
  3. JamesD1957

    JamesD1957 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cypress, Texas
    I really haven't noticed IGD on my recent record purchases. Now if you want to talk about non-fill, off center, and warped records, oh yeah, now those are problems that I've seen!
     
  4. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    IGD has played on a lot of records. Not surprised he’s everywhere. A great bass player.
     
  5. empirelvr

    empirelvr "Give me the chocolate, and nobody gets hurt!"

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Invented the fuzz bass, didn't he?
     
  6. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    Lots of Eliptical styli that I see in your gear. Do you have something better than a Shibata?
     
  7. Old Zorki II

    Old Zorki II Storm Watcher

    Location:
    near Tampa, FL
    I do not have this problem. As it happens with all cartridges it is defintely not a cartridge problem, but perhaps with your alignment routine. Have you tried to check azymuth with devices such as fozgometer or (i heard it is possible) with voltmeter? Stevenson alignment suppose to be the most forgiving one for IGD AFAIK.
     
  8. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    Technics alignment is even more so. The second null point is at the label edge I think.
    Stevenson is probably better though.
     
    Oelewapper and Old Zorki II like this.
  9. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor. Thread Starter

    Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time out by Sony Music Entertainment:
    The Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time Out

    Chet Baker - The Thrill is gone by Le Chant Du Monde:
    Chet Baker - The Thrill Is Gone

    Avicii - True by Metropolis Mastering:
    Avicii - True

    Daft Punk - Random Access Memories by Gateway Mastering:
    Daft Punk - Random Access Memories

    Jimi Hendrix - Electric Ladyland, a sterling sound remaster:
    The Jimi Hendrix Experience - Electric Ladyland

    Jimi Hendrix - The best of:
    Jimi Hendrix - Experience Hendrix - The Best Of Jimi Hendrix

    Dave Brubeck Quartet - New Port 1958:
    The Dave Brubeck Quartet - Newport 1958

    Herbie Hancock - Head Hunters by Allan Tucker:
    Herbie Hancock - Head Hunters

    Miles Davis - Kind of Blue by Sony Music Entertainment:
    https://www.discogs.com/Miles-Davis-Kind-Of-Blue/release/2506823

    Recently found an older record that has the same IGD issue:
    Yes - Fragile (German pressing) by Gunter Pfanz:
    https://www.discogs.com/Yes-Fragile/release/2369754

    So there are some supposedly good masterings/pressings and some more obscure/unknown among them.
    There are more of them, but I'll have to take look.
     
  10. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor. Thread Starter

    Yes, I've checked some alignment tutorials and Technics manual to be sure.
    But I've also tested it with a few Concorde cartridges (no alignment involved) with same results.
     
  11. Old Zorki II

    Old Zorki II Storm Watcher

    Location:
    near Tampa, FL
    But may be something with your arm? Have you tried different one?
     
    VinylSoul and Andy Saunders like this.
  12. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    The only one of the albums you listed that I have is this one, and mine is the U.S. pressing from around the same time. Does yours have "Sterling" stamped in the deadwax? If not it is not a Sterling cut but something else. There are many cases of reissues being released at the same time in the U.S. and Europe with totally different lacquer cuts. That might be the case here.

    I never heard any IGD on my Sterling U.S. cut of the EL reissue when using AT ML carts. If there was I would have heard it as I'm hypersensitive to IGD.
     
  13. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor. Thread Starter

    Yes, off center and warped is common too, but those go straight back to the shop.
     
    JamesD1957 likes this.
  14. Old Zorki II

    Old Zorki II Storm Watcher

    Location:
    near Tampa, FL
    I have some pressings of dubious origins such as Wax Time, etc - and do not remember specific IGD issue. They never sounded as good as some audiophile pressings, but it is different story...
     
    Oelewapper likes this.
  15. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    Well neither my Time Out AP 33 or 45 and KoB Kevin, MFSL or Original stereo versions have IGD at all from what I recall. Maybe some slight tape distortion but nothing that pertains to the end of sides.

    I have the Hendrix Sterling too but it was too long ago I listened to it to say.
     
  16. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor. Thread Starter

    No, it hasn't the Sterling pressed in the deadwax.

    TBH, it's one of the worst I have... It also has an issue with channel separation, where the sound sweeps from left to right and back every few secords, but I think that's typical for these "Hendrix experience" repress records as the others (The Best Of and Band of Gypsies) I have also present the same issues.
     
    nibor likes this.
  17. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    How old are your styli by the way?
    Do you keep track?
     
    arisinwind likes this.
  18. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor. Thread Starter

    Yes I also have plenty of those, most of them are European grey market releases, mostly DMM from eastern Europe.
    Those are a hit or miss, just like the "Le Chant Du Monde" release of Chet Baker I posted earlier, other than the IGD, it sounds quite nice, for a grey market release.
     
  19. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor. Thread Starter

    Some of them are almost new, it's mostly the concordes that had quite some hours on them.
    Especially the Benz Micro, AT95E and 2M Black I have... those probably have less than 80 hours on them.
    Especially the AT95E is very new, found it in a drawer about a year ago and bought a new stylus for it, because I was curious how an entry level stylus would sound on a decent setup.
    Has probably less than 30 hours on it.
    I did check them using an USB microscope though; only the Concorde Gold appears to be almost worn out, but that one is basically in storage.
    How much playtime is normal for an average stylus before it needs to get replaced?
     
  20. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    Depends on the shape. 500 - 1000 hours for your Shibata and less for simpler ones.
    For more detail read this:
    https://www.sound-smith.com/articles/stylus-shape-information

    It would be interesting if you got the ML upgrade for the 95. Maybe that will solve it.
    I had lots of distortion issues too until I got my Paratrace shape.
     
    Floyd Crazy likes this.
  21. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    If no Sterling stamp, what you got there is typical half-assed MOV stuff. Basically something that might look okay on the surface but they never cut from tape and will just use whatever digital master the record company provides. They then cut in house using DMM via an assembly line process. My guess is they used the same source as the most recent Hendrix CDs that were available back in 2010. Those are loud and a little compressed.

    The U.S. Sterling pressings from around the same time were cut from tape by George Marino.
     
    Oelewapper likes this.
  22. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Wear depends on many factors. Most USB microscopes will not focus well enough at 200X magnification to actually see wear in detail. My replacement schedule is currently 500-700 hours. 1000 hours is the max I would recommend for any stylus if you care about your records.

    See this article:

    The Finish Line for Your Phonograph Stylus… - The Vinyl Press
     
  23. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor. Thread Starter

    Microline comes close to fineline, right?
    Because I have the same IGD issue with a Concorde Century (has a nude fineline tip).
     
  24. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    Agreed
     
  25. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    No Micro Line is the best there is pretty much.
    The Soundsmith article lists them all and shows their specifications.

    Your Shibata and Fine Line should not have as much trouble as your other carts though.
    There may be other issues here.
     
    Oelewapper likes this.

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