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I’m a convert after years of digital cable improvement denial

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by HelpfulDad, Feb 17, 2021.

  1. tIANcI

    tIANcI Wondering when the hifi madness will end

    Location:
    Malaysia
    I’m not one who is dead into cables. My cables don’t cost much. But I have compared cables (not HDMI though) and there is a difference though it is not a large one. Tested RCA interconnects up to $7k, USB up to $2k and power cables up to $750 etc.

    For me it’s merely audible. There is a subtle difference. It sounds better but the ROI is not there compared with say sorting out the room acoustics or even speaker placement. I can live without the better cables.

    But then for some people a mild difference may feel like a lot to them. This is something that’s very difficult to quantify.

    ps my USB cable costs $3.50 and I’m happy with it. Can afford the better ones but I rather put the money into a better DAC or streamer first :D
     
  2. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I have both BJC and Chocolate HDMI cables . The reason I sprung for the Chocolate was that I was having trouble with the BJC, mostly with the connection.

    I got my tv professionally calibrated and there are people who balk at that too, and that is something that can be measured.
     
  3. tIANcI

    tIANcI Wondering when the hifi madness will end

    Location:
    Malaysia
    Regarding digital being 1’s n 0’s only and it’s all about measurements.

    Situation 1
    - I got hold of the Lumin T2 and it definately beats my Mytek Brooklyn Bridge
    - I use a Samsung T5 SSD for DSD storage
    - plugging the SSD into the T2 and then playing it via my Mytek (it sees the T2 as a NAS) sounds better than SSD into the Mytek
    - there is a very obvious difference

    That got me into thinking it’s more than just 1’s n 0’s. Why? I don’t know. I don’t have that specific knowledge on electronics.
     
  4. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scottish Borders
    You got that right. And that's the ugly truth.
     
  5. Sevoflurane

    Sevoflurane Forum Resident

    I didn't see anything insulting there and thought that @head_unit made it clear that there was no intent to insult. Bias is a real and very human phenomenon and not something that's all in the imagination; it's how the human brain is wired together and is part of what makes us human.

    The analogy with the placebo effect is a good one and good scientific methodology seeks to eliminate bias in order to expose genuine differences. Functional MRI scans and / or PET scans are not non existent tests and can reveal genuine differences in brain response to a variety of stimuli. It's a really interesting bit of science and medicine, IMHO.

    Unfortunately, the only established way of being truly scientific in order to eliminate bias is to go down single or double blinding or ABX comparisons, and I am mindful of the forum rules proscribing discussions of such things due to the arguments they generate [which are pretty much the same ones that result every time there is a cable thread].

    Each to their own, though. My headphones sound better on my new headphone amp to me now I have changed the cable, but the new cable allows me to run balanced as opposed to single ended. I haven't got the time or energy to do a proper comparison; i'd sooner just listen to music.
     
  6. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    ...but some people think they’re a superior human race and experience it as an insult to be compared with us lesser beings.
     
  7. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    What's wrong with screen calibration?
    Idk about TVs specifically, but I have calibrated/adjusted my PC screen (a VA panel) using a Datacolor SpyderX.
    If I print something, the color of the print on paper matches with what I see on my screen, since I performed the calibration and adjustment.
     
  8. Peter_IT_Guru

    Peter_IT_Guru Forum Resident

    Location:
    uk
    Yup, I did the same for screen on the PC I use to print from. It took around 4 minutes. cost = £0
     
  9. K Knight

    K Knight Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Geneva
    Actually, as a commercial and product photographer I can attest that calibrating screens is not something that's made up. This process is a little more complicated than using just a machine. But no screen shows the right colour right off the bat. Just as no camera sensor can tell you the right colour without getting it right in post production.

    Whether it is necessary for TVs that's arguable. But TVs come with filters now so, if this is something that's important to you, then sure. I don't do it for my TV.

    But I can tell you for sure that my comp monitor is recalibrated every 3 weeks. The is because the screen's pixels change over time and as a product photographer you need to make sure when you send a file to the printer or the client. It better be right. I've been there.

    Actually even my phone is calibrated to make sure I see on the phone is the same on the screen.

    I think people should keep on topic and to what they know.
     
    Uglyversal and Gibsonian like this.
  10. Peter_IT_Guru

    Peter_IT_Guru Forum Resident

    Location:
    uk
    I can clearly see how, in your profession, you would have to ensure all screens are accurately depicting the photograph as taken, but this is nothing to do with that. I think this guy is talking about having somebody calibrate his Television for watching television programmes and films
     
  11. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    I found that with color calibration by eye it’s actually really hard to do it accurately.
    Highly susceptible to errors due to the circumstances like ambient CRI and bias.
     
    Tullman likes this.
  12. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Oh wow I didn't know that and never really noticed it.
    Those changes are very small I assume?

    Well, I think it's fine - if they're open to learning new things and aren't making random incorrect statements.
     
  13. MrEWhite

    MrEWhite Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    I buy the cheapest quality spec compliant cables I can, and they always work perfectly. Never spent more than 30 bucks on a cable, minus a fiber HDMI 2.1 33 ft cable for my PC's graphics card so I can output 4k 120 Hz to my TV, couldn't find another cable that long that fit those specs that wasn't expensive (for a cable).
     
  14. Cliff

    Cliff Magic Carpet Man

    Location:
    Northern CA
    I assume you deleted this post because you realized how foolish (on so many levels) it was?
     
    Uglyversal likes this.
  15. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scottish Borders
    I haven't had my TV professionally calibrated, but I've certainly gone to the bother of tweaking the settings to bring out the best of what we watch at home. Very pleased with the results.
     
  16. K Knight

    K Knight Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Geneva
    Small enough to make a massive difference for print. Not so much for digital, though screens are a pain in the ass to be honest. The amount of times a client says the colours not right or its too dark is quite a lot. Then they see it on my screen and they are like oh wow, huge difference. Happens a lot with Imacs for instance.
     
    Sevoflurane and Oelewapper like this.
  17. Peter_IT_Guru

    Peter_IT_Guru Forum Resident

    Location:
    uk
    I haven't deleted anything
    Can't see anything foolish about scamming
     
  18. Peter_IT_Guru

    Peter_IT_Guru Forum Resident

    Location:
    uk
    Ah I think some way off topic posts were deleted and mine got mixed up with them
     
  19. MattHooper

    MattHooper Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    I'm surprised by your view on this subject.

    Proper calibration for any capable screen, be it LCD, OLED or Projector, is very challenging. It's a rubick's cube where dialing in gamma, contrast, color etc all affect one another.
    Over at the AVSforum (I've been a member for 20 years) you can find tons of incredibly long threads detailing calibration procedures. You could buy, for instance, a projector for it's class leading contrast and black levels (as I did with my JVC projector) but with the tiniest wrong move - say trying to get the gamma right to make sure you aren't losing shadow detail - you have raised your black floor and have thrown away a bunch of what you paid for. You can also throw away high-light detail (especially when trying to get HDR right). Getting it ALL - bang on industry standard accurate color, gamma, contrast, black levels can be almost nightmarish tough without the right expertise and calibration equipment. Which is why professionals actually use expensive equipment like spectroradiometer's to dial in calibration. The very same reason such equipment and expertise is applicable to a pro monitor is the same reason it's applicable to any display if you want it calibrated accurately. While the market for professional calibration is biggest in the projection-based systems, many people in to home theater us big OLED or LCD TVS as their main display and so all the same stuff is applicable if they want it done accurately.

    I actually bought some of the equipment many use to calibrate but decided that, while I really want an accurate image, I'm just not in to the amount of work required. So I hire a local pro to calibrate my projector when I get a new one, or do a touch up after a couple years (calibration/gamma drifts after time, so you lose things like shadow detail, color drift).

    Some people don't care to have the most accurate display for their passion of watching movies and TV, just like many don't care about accurate audio equipment. But for those who do...these are the paths enthusiasts take.
     
    Cliff, SpudOz, Uglyversal and 5 others like this.
  20. Peter_IT_Guru

    Peter_IT_Guru Forum Resident

    Location:
    uk
    Hey Matt, I respect everything you have contributed on here, please believe me

    I can not cope, though, with the concept of somebody changing all of my careful setup, to something they think I should be watching
    To me it is the equivalent of somebody saying "hey, your audio equipment is set up wrong. I will change it to how I think you should be listening"
     
  21. K Knight

    K Knight Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Geneva

    Actually it's not really like that. - What it does it it takes Pantone colours (as well as brightness/contrast) and puts them on the screen. There's a lens that you put on the screen and it reads that colour on the screen. If it doesn't match the Pantone colour, then it basically says "hey this is off. You're supposed to be showing this colour and you are showing me this instead" - and then adjusts it accordingly. It's not someone's opinion, it's actually done by Pantone colours. - And some of the devices available belong to the company Pantone.
     
    RolandG likes this.
  22. Peter_IT_Guru

    Peter_IT_Guru Forum Resident

    Location:
    uk
    And who has decided it to be better than my own preference ?
     
  23. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Objective accuracy and subjective preference are two different things.
    Same with people preferring solid state for accuracy vs. tubes for warmth.
     
    Billy Infinity, SpudOz and RolandG like this.
  24. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    Abingdon UK
    My current audio and video setups

    Particularly, about half way down:

    "found the weak spot. It takes the artistic-fidelity isolator & USB Module in front of the Oppo Sonica DAC to bring the ASP.4 plus AT528NC based system to the level where I can totally enjoy it and become deeply engaged emotionally.
    The ASP.4 is not limiting the sonic performance of the LX521.4!
    Transfer of audio data from laptop to DAC and performance of the DAC are the critical elements for the ASP.4 plus AT528NC analog system."

    That, unpacking SL's sentence is an optical isolator and reclocker in the USB datastream.

    So, if you don't believe me, perhaps you might just believe Siegfried Linkwitz. If you don't know who this guy is (was, RIP SL) I suggest you try google. Although that seems to be beyond you.
     
  25. Peter_IT_Guru

    Peter_IT_Guru Forum Resident

    Location:
    uk
    Have you just posteed this into the wrong thread?

    or What are you on ????
     

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