I’m a convert after years of digital cable improvement denial

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by HelpfulDad, Feb 17, 2021.

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  1. HelpfulDad

    HelpfulDad Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    El Cajon, Ca.
    It's like Quinoa
     
  2. elvisizer

    elvisizer Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Jose
    Cognitive biases affect EVERYONE, it's a universal characteristic of how humans process information. I don't know why someone would be offended by this? matt is literally trying to tell you the opposite of what you're getting from this post- you are NOT intellectually inferior!
     
  3. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    People tend to make up their own explanations for the things they perceive and if someone else comes along with a different explanation that’s probably true, some feel they might’ve been WRONG for simply believing what they see - and being wrong is BAD.
    Everyone makes some mistake from time to time, but some can’t cope with even the slightest idea of being incorrect.
    And doubting your own knowledge or perception is associated by those people with WEAK, INSECURE and LOW SELF ESTEEM.
    So they don’t even consider doing blind tests, null tests, measurements or read reliable sources of information that might contradict their established opinion.

    So of course they feel offended...
     
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  4. fish

    fish Senior Member

    Location:
    NYS, USA
    Ive done plenty of blind A/B tests and basically hit it all the time.
    I can tell what tube is playing over the 3 or so regular's I use.
    I can tell.
    I honestly think its the people who cant hear the differences that search science for satisfaction. Our science is small and weak. We don't know ****e and if you think you do then you are dummer than you think. Trust your senses they are beyond our comprehension.
     
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  5. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Ah yes, the association of being mistaken with being dumb is a common thing as well.
    Another reason not to second guess our own perception and not to be open to new insights.
     
  6. brubacca

    brubacca Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I haven't read the whole thread, but I agree. I hate it and don't understand why digital cables or power cables make a difference. I have heard the difference and spend money on these things in my systems.
     
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  7. jtw

    jtw Forum Resident

    But response of tubes can be measured.
     
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  8. MattHooper

    MattHooper Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Sounds impressive. Mind if I ask how you perform these blind tests? Does someone help you, so you don't know which tube you are listening to? (Tube amps I presume?)

    Yeah, that's the typical mash-up of retorts to any skepticism: "Your hearing must not be good enough" plus the implication that someone looking for objective evidence aren't "feeling" enough.

    I find that attitude sad to read particularly when, in an astonishing scientific/engineering achievement, yet just again landed a rover on Mars!

    It's always ironic reading someone dismiss the achievements of science...on The Internet ;-)

    A lot of people project their ignorance upon science. "We don't know X" is really "I actually don't know any of the science on this subject." I'm getting that vibe...;-)

    I simply can not relate to anyone who can not find themselves in awe of science and human knowledge in general. If you pick virtually any subject, any item from your fridge, or a walk in the garden, and peruse all the things people have discovered about that subject, everything related to it - even just an orange or banana, or an ant or flower in the garden - and just trace the amount of information people have compiled from all angles, it's frankly astonishing.
    You find out just how ignorant you are, just how much people actually DO know that you don't.
    Not recognizing the incredible gathering of knowledge we've accumulated thus far is just..bizarre..to me.

    Huh?

    You do know that countless instruments have been created due to the *limitations* of our senses, right? Unless you are currently seeing X-rays at this moment, hearing ultra-sonic frequencies, peering into the cosmic past as far as the Magellan Telescope? I certainly hope you don't "trust" your senses to detect a CO2 leak in your house!

    I always find this fear or aversion to empirical science and measurements odd. As if one has to somehow Lord it over anything any uppity "scientist" or engineer is going to tell us.
    Why see them in opposition? Measurements and careful testing can reveal a lot about audio, while all the while we get immense subjective enjoyment out of the music.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
  9. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Exactly... IMO, when it comes to perception, it would make much more sense to debate the definition of knowledge or reality rather than knowledge or reality itself.
     
  10. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    F Everyone's I:
    Audioquest Chocolate HDMI cables are on sale at crutchfield with a 60 day return window. 70 dollars off a $130 cable. still not going to buy it though, my TV has an excellent picture....
     
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  12. james

    james Summon The Queen

    Location:
    Annapolis
    Would you mind expanding on that?
     
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  13. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    I see jitter got a mention. Props...
     
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  14. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Yes, certainly.

    A much more important thing would be not to guess about the perception and capability of other people.
    But that would have to do with some people on this thread accepting their own limitations which in some cases can be even harder than admitting they are wrong.
     
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  15. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    Video is interesting because you can literally SEE changes if there are any, and I guess our visual memory is less fallible than our notoriously unreliable hearing?
    - Do you still have the old cable? Some A/B pictures would be thrilling
    - I once needed more outlets; a Monster Cable AC block/filter which was on a great sale and available right now on a rear projection TV and my wife noted the picture looked better. I noticed it seemed like less background snow (not that there was a lot in the first place).
    - But as an electrical engineer-albeit not specialized in digital transmission-I am always extremely skeptical that some special floobydust design will be better than a proper regular design insofar as digital reproduction. I still use long USB printer cables with oversized conductors, however that as expected was an all or nothing, print/no print situation. It did not improve the quality of the printing ha ha
     
  16. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    I'll say this from multiple experiences: HDMI cables can go bad. Even if they are literally never moved. Hmm, do those expensive ones come with a lifetime warranty? And then I have to ask, if you spend $313 for a cable, would a $313 more expensive TELEVISION with a regular cable look even better?
    - I have a new 75"; if I ever spare some time and could get an expensive cable with easy return I could borrow my buddy's test signal disc to see if there is any difference to be spotted.
     
  17. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Why?
    I think it’s quite normal if someone had an optical illusion for others to point out what it is and guess what may have caused it.
    Are optical illusions something to be ashamed of for some reason?
     
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  18. fish

    fish Senior Member

    Location:
    NYS, USA
    You're one of them special types I see. So many of you.

    ABing was allot like Bird Box. LOL

    And you made my point. Are you related to The Supreme Intelligence by any chance?

    Either way I bow to you but only on Mars.



     
  19. Screen grabs are easy proof, yes. But oddly enough no one who ever claims an HDMI cable made a change in picture quality provides them. What a surprise.
     
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  20. MattHooper

    MattHooper Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Hmm...I seem to remember someone in other threads questioning my experience with hi-end gear and leaping to inferences about my inability to hear subtle differences (e.g. in cables) obvious to others. Without knowing anything about my experience or capabilities.

    I just can't recall exactly who that was at the moment. Can you help me out? Perhaps that person could follow your advice.

    ;)
     
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  21. MattHooper

    MattHooper Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Uh...OK....thanks for making me feel special, and for providing us with quality content.
     
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  22. fish

    fish Senior Member

    Location:
    NYS, USA
    Second only to you.
     
  23. Otlset

    Otlset I think I am I think

    Location:
    Temecula, CA
    Well, it looks like the OP will have to return to digital cable improvement denial. Science "says" so -- it's all in his head.
     
  24. MattHooper

    MattHooper Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Indeed. Why pay attention to engineering and science? What do they know?
     
    JackG likes this.
  25. I'll quote my avatar here, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

    Anyway, screen grabs or it din't happen.
     
    JackG likes this.
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