I'm at a motel, watching my first 4K broadcast on a 4k set

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Ghostworld, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    This does not surprise me.

    Lets see, the common complaint against streaming vs 4K bluray is compression artifacts that include loss of grain structure and uneven quality that includes fluctuating frame interpolation to account for the ultimate goal of saving bandwidth which is of course dependant on subscribers and on the fly demand.

    I think these debates of "good enough" quantity vs quality/consistency have been done to death.

    I say it is garbage because it lacks structure and it is the license operator trying to kill the save state. With some people's mindsets it is working. To each his own.

    Screw the Disney/Apple/Netlix/Google domination tactic.

    As long as there is a cord and the player that hooks straight to yout tv without an internet connection needed there will always be superior quality. It is physics plain and simple. I will never ever rely on the company man to host my content. It is garbage for so many reasons and that includes cutting down quality to one split hair closer to that death of physical.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  2. gary191265

    gary191265 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I don't believe the manufacturing processes would allow tolerances that were that great, therefore, unless you can prove it, which given our proximity, you can't, then I don't believe you.[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  3. gary191265

    gary191265 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    If there's no compression, the delivery system is identical, so where does your argument come from?

    If I rip a blu-ray disc, bit for bit and play it via my media player, connected by an RJ45 to my PC, you're saying it's not the same as playing it on my standalone blu-ray player?
     
  4. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    @Vidiot is correct. The tolerances are all over the place for any consumer set. Unless you have measurement equipment and software (and know how to use it), you have no idea if the settings I use for my TV actually make your own (even if exact same model) are better or worse.

    The great thing about video, there is a measured and mathematical "standard" for colors, luminance, grayscale, etc. You can let computers and tools do a lot of work for you, if you have the correct tools and experience.
     
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  5. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    You are missing out then. iTunes has a glorious 4K Dolby Vision restoration of War of the Worlds (1953). If you want to watch it on disc ("superior physical media!"), you're stuck with DVD.
     
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  6. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    I can wait dude. Too many others to watch and I can't keep up on superior releases as it is.

    I don't doubt it CAN look great (when compared to DVD) but eventually I have no doubt it will be better.

    From one film fan to another, to each his own.

    Not the same thing. "If" there is no compression...but there is (in regards to stream sites).

    Don't stretch what I said like chewing gum into exceptions.

    Though ripping an even mediocre collection...what the heck for? Man how many terrabytes it takes onto faulty hard drives that use unneeded energy???

    Ingmar Bergman 30 disc box set...isn't that close to 1 terrabyte?

    P.S. media players through any blutooth/wif connection at any point loses quality.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  7. gary191265

    gary191265 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    All you mentioned was a cord versus an internet connection, no chewing gum exceptions at all.

    As for disc space, I'll pay for that (given the price of it these days) over the inconvenience of finding the disc, putting it in the machine and playing it. You may not but horses for courses and all that.
     
    budwhite likes this.
  8. gary191265

    gary191265 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I'll go to a large box retailer at the weekend and try two separate models of the same machine out with the same settings and report back if the differences are that radical.
     
  9. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    And how are you measuring differences, via eyeballs? With what source content, and what lighting conditions?

    To measure how close any display gets to mathematical accuracy for color accuracy, grayscale, etc., you need tools and a controlled environment. Otherwise you're simply guessing, or content with "it looks good enough". Which is fine for many people. But if you're going to go through the efforts of actually making fine adjustments, you might as well try to align to a known standard.
     
  10. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    Walking over to a shelf and getting a disc is really that hard?...some of us would literally need 10000 terrabytes (and growing) and tons of time ripping it...only to upgrade or swap out etc..

    But hey, I don't pay your bills. Your situation is obviously different....though again, no hard drive is without error sectors. Discs have some issues but not near like that....that and discs don't crash in bulk and waste energy.
     
  11. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas

    Hard to walk over to a shelf and get a disc when I'm sitting in a airport 1000 miles from home because of a flight delay :)
     
  12. gary191265

    gary191265 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I'm a photographer, I know all about standards. However, my eyes are good enough to set two TVs of identical models next to each other in the same shop to the same settings and tell if they're radically different. Arms they'll still be way better than 'shop demo' mode.
     
  13. gary191265

    gary191265 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I'm sure glad I don't have as many failed hard drives as everyone on here claims to. I'm considering quitting here in case it had anything to do with the life of my drives.
     
  14. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    Not failed....flawed.

    Fine dining happens at a restaurant not an alley.

    I prefer to watch people and read. Heck I don't even listen to music without good speakers.
     
  15. gary191265

    gary191265 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I don't have any flawed drives, they get checked daily. Flawed and failed drives are usually caused by rewrites. My drives don't have them.

    I love music, I'll listen to it on anything that's available at the time. Sure, I like nice systems but live without music because I'm nowhere near one, screw that.
     
    budwhite likes this.
  16. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    Assume you applied the same settings to each TV, and they looked difference enough to notice (not radically). How would you know which one was closer to accurate?
     
  17. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    You can't check a drive unless checked against source. All drives have magnetic flaws. It is the nature of the beast.

    As for music...my car and home is good enough. The world is meant to be seen and heard.

    Not telling you how you should feel, just how I feel.

    It may seem foreign to you, but if i can't hear Pet Sounds in full speakers I ain't going out of my way to listen.

    Ear buds are stupid and I will smash them to bits before I even begin to reach them to my ear. Same goes for crappy DAC's on smart phones and portable players.

    When I travel or hang in a hotel I get out. The crappy tv and crappy music sources are not used.
     
  18. gary191265

    gary191265 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    The one I preferred, simple.
     
  19. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    Then why even bother looking online for settings, at all? Just set it to your preference.
     
  20. gary191265

    gary191265 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Because the settings online usually get it to around my preference far quicker.
     
    genesim likes this.
  21. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    And nothing wrong with that.
     
  22. zombiemodernist

    zombiemodernist Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeastern USA
    Yep, plenty of times the studio only releases a 2K BR and the iTunes version is 4K HDR. To my eye, a 4K iTunes can beat almost every standard BR out there, and it remains very competitive to the 4K UHD disc itself. The only real concern is a loss of license or low bandwidth internet. I still like discs but the price and QC issues really suck.

    We had this debate a while back. I'm a designer myself and I get where you're coming from, I think overall color is treated much more perceptually in the photography and graphic design space than in Hollywood mastering. Outside of pre-press almost nobody bothers to calibrate their displays anymore unless it's visibly off.

    I think the ultimate point is that with the right tools / software (and the $$$ for them) you can get a close to the color standards of a pro monitor, since thats exactly what they do to a pro monitor. Obviously the TV is bad in a default setting, but most TV's "cinema" or "movie" settings should be pretty close to accurate without using tools / software. Getting settings for IRE values and CMS stuff could possibly take the TV out of spec more than just putting the TV in the better mode.
     
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  23. gary191265

    gary191265 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I've taken fashion shots for retailers and by the time they get to be printed for shop displays, their notion of skin tone and white balance is somewhat different to mine and certainly a lot different to the image they were supplied with :)
     
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  24. zombiemodernist

    zombiemodernist Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeastern USA
    Lol, yep. So many variables, the designer color correcting after the photog (guilty), the pre-press treatment, the ink, the stock, the time of day etc. Not to even get into digital color spaces... Video mastering seems like an enviable closed loop.
     
  25. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Believe what you want. For some, reality is subjective. I have 40 years experience that says you're wrong, but there's always the chance you know something I don't.

    Those are good questions. I often say, "my eyeballs aren't calibrated to the point where I can look at a monitor and tell you if it's right, but I can generally tell when it's wrong." I've called engineers into the room to check the display, and inevitably they'll find some weird little irregularity with a setting that's not quite right. Like, "hey, the whites are looking a bit on the green/cyan side."

    It's scary how many clients push back when we try to gently tell them everything they see back at their office is wrong. They'll snap, "but we watch other people's shows on these sets, and they look fine!" :cry:
     
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