Hello, do you wish to share ideas as to why AV equipment (especially audio products, such as receivers and CD players) falter and conk out relatively frequently compared to, say, high-end audio systems in vehicles, microwaves, and smartphones?
It isn't just audio equipment. Home appliances do that too. Typically it is the computer control board that fries. We have a fridge from the '90s that is plain that is still going strong in the basement while we've gone through 3 kitchen fridges during that time. It's because companies keep adding dumb features(like internet connectivity) to appliances that don't need fancy features.
Past experience suggests the minimum retail for a well designed (and durable) stereo amplifier is in the $300 to $400 range. That is for a very basic, modestly powered, two-channel design. Now multiply that across 7 channels (or 11, which some people seem to think is necessary these days), add in complex audio processing, DAC chips for each channel, ADCs, video and audio switching, video cross-conversion and deinterlacing, graphical interfaces, automatic calibration, touch-screen remotes, and power enough to drive 5/7/11 speakers to reference levels. Then add in the challenge of heat dissipation and component wear. Doing that well should cost a minimum of several thousands of dollars. Even at that price, it is a challenge. Some of these AV amps sell for a few hundred dollars retail. Many, many corners are cut to get something that well specified down to a competitive price point. It is amazing they last as long as they do. I run an Arcam AV9 processor (17 years old) which retailed for just under $6,000, and a P7 multichannel power amp which retailed for just under $5,000 (20 years old). The PSU to the HDMI board in the AV9 was killed by a power surge, and I eventually managed to repair it myself. Other than that, it still performs flawlessly. It is a very simple design, with no complex processing and basic HDMI switching. The P7 I have had serviced once and, again, other than that, it performs flawlessly. Again a simple but elegant design with very good heat management (it has never gotten warm to the touch). If you want things to last a long time, I would say: (1) Avoid complexity; (2) It is typically better to buy well-designed, older kit than better-specified, new kit; (3) Pay attention to heat dissipation!
Just open up AV equipment and midrange HiFi equipment and see for yourself. It’s pretty self-explanatory: AV receiver Poweramp
Not a great example. Here is one of the better designed AV processors. Note three separate PSUs for video, analogue, digital, properly separated circuit sections. Really quite nicely done but this - Rotel RSP-1098 - was merely "okay" sounding with music and cannot hold a candle to a decent stereo amp. Longevity has also not proven to be its strong point. Here is the interior of my AV9 - not the cleanest design, a SMPS tightly packed in alongside a resonant PSU for the video board, but a very clever use of space and the SMPS is synced to the sample rate of the incoming audio signal, plus a very nice crystal PLL for digital inputs and a fully analogue bypass. Here is the interior of an amp I used to own, the Denon AVR-3808, very well reviewed, competitive retail, but it really is pants in stereo and there is this horrible "lisp" like sound on sibilant 'S' in speech which is all but impossible to listen to. These criticisms are all directed at the power amp stage which is the culprit and is where the money is saved. The pre/DAC/pro stage is very capable. The 3808 I owned did start to break down and stopped producing sound from the speaker outputs. It wasn't even very old.
Cheap IC and Applications Specific Integrated Circuits. All the surround codecs, HDMI, and other junk crammed into that small space. Cheap as possible build quality, with component parts stressed often at or beyond their limits, and ROHS solder which fails.
I haven't had longevity issues with most of my audio gear - whether inexpensive mass market or expensive hi-end stuff. My family room receiver is approaching 20 years and shows no signs of conking out. I have had the occasional issue with disc players, but it is almost always mechanical wear and tear on the drive itself. Sometimes it makes economic sense to repair, sometimes it does not.
Did I tell you about buying a nice scanner and third party software to calibrate the workflow only to have Cannon stop supporting the software drivers less than three months later? No? Well, it’s a boring story, so no loss.
Yeah, the control boards in modern appliances are populated with cheap parts, and typically only last a few years. I won't mention where these cheap parts come from, cause we all know. I't stupid, because the appliances will last 15-20 years no problem, but the electronics only last 5, so the whole thing gets sent to the recyling center. I replaced a bunch of relays and a capacitor on the control board of our 15 year old Kenmore Elite fridge/freezer last year. Literally $15 worth of parts and a couple of hours to swap them out. The control boards are long OOP, so the only option is to fix them, or send the whole thing to the dump. jeff
I’m drifting off topic, but could you please share more about this? I have a similar vintage Kenmore Elite. Did the fridge die, or was this a preventative repair?
I've heard it called dynamic obsolescence and the obvious answer is to get you to buy more. The not so dirty secret is if you spend more in the beginning you often save money in the long term.
Sometimes, but when you scale up a line of ovens, do you make an extra board for the models, or do you use the same one? Cars are often set up with a harness for more features, but switches are customized to limit those features.
Not being in the oven business I have no idea but I think what I've said applies to audio in my experience at least. And by better gear generally not speaking of stuff that's mass produced.
Integrated production chains was figured out by the Japanese firms long ago and, as you say, the distinction between kit of X price is often the presence or absence of a switch!
Add to this the heat AVR units suffer from. This is from so many channels, crammed in with all the AVR processor/codec/HDMI boards. Their design is so crammed in, that electronic component parts get cooked from all the heat. And no thermal management.
In the case of A/V equipment, I'd say it's less a case of planned obsolescence than the speed at which advanced technology makes items obsolete. My favorite example is that of my 2013 Samsung plasma TV, which was the last of the technology. App improvement made the built in apps useless despite the picture quality. Add an Apple TV or Roku box, and the problem is solved. My A/V receivers are both obsolete due their being limited to 7.1, but at this point I view Atmos as an option rather than a must have. For audio only equipment I can see advanced DAC technology improving upon my existing equipment, but don't see the equipment becoming bricked in of itself. The only example I recall seeing this goes back 3-4 years ago when Sonos adopted the S2 app, rendering some of their initial pieces useless.
Nor mine. Ah, my Denon AVR-2312Ci at one location lost Ethernet connection, I unplugged and haven't retried, others I had here kept putting until I sold them. Mom's house has like a 1980s model still cooking. My best friend still has a TEAC CD player I gave her for her wedding. asterisk: I don't update TVs or AVRs. Screw that, I don't need bricks. My mom's TV is giving some update message, I told her just ignore it.
We had a 12-year-old flat TV we paid a small fortune for when the technology was new-ish. A young friend finally prodded me into swapping it for one wider, thinner, lighter, sharper, and about 1/4 the price (less with inflation). The old one went to a friend's kids for video games. I have been waiting patiently for our 10-yr-old BluRay player to die, but it won't. The only thing stereo that up and died on me was a costly Meridian disc transport (fortunately bought at a large discount) that lasted 10 years, then would have cost $750 to repair. Ouch! Oh, that and my JL Audio subs, which have needed periodic repair. In my opinion, the things really exhibiting planned obsolescence are smartphones and tablets. After five years, they might work fine, but software updates stop and newer app revisions won't work -- partly because of OS changes, partly because apps constantly add more whirly, flashy, idiotic "features" that give nothing useful but plenty of CPU demand, and the apps just crawl on old gear. I'm told iOS is better but not immune, but with Android updating twice a year and tablet manufacturers providing at most two (often just one) updates, a new phone tablet starts becoming functionally obsolete the day you buy it.
When it comes to optical players, I don't care how much money one spends - it will fail some day. Laser assemblies don't last forever.
I have a benchmark LA4 and AHB2 , which they will probably bury me with. i have no concerns at all about them remotely conking out. get good **** man so you don’t have to worry about it. it saves money in the end too
Never experienced this with audio gear or anything like that. Its usually more so things like phones, tablets (anything without a replaceable battery), or some computers (when apple stops supporting their hardware with software updates). i dont know what av gear youve been buying that has this issue, but maybe you need to buy better gear that doesnt contain the cheapest bargain bin components?
This reminds me of an issue with Philips CD-i players: They contained a non-replaceable battery that would eventually wear out. Once it died the player would not function properly. Although it is possible to replace the battery it could result in damage to the player (it involves opening the player and doing some soldering). With devices like that, I've wondered why they couldn't design them so that you can easily replace the battery yourself (such as a place on the back of the player)?
