Hello, I received one of these last week and have only used it for quick cleaning on new record so far, with just distilled water. It is a nifty little device, but I’m not sure how effective it is yet. I will definitely still be using the Spin Clean first on used records, will need to get a good work flow going. The issue I’m noting is the record seems to remain almost completely dry as it rotates in the plain distilled water, there must be too much surface tension. I have a tube of tergikleen I bought from Amazon about a month ago. How much do I add to a gallon of distilled water for a no rinse solution?
I read back a half dozen pages or so, will take me awhile to read the whole thread, but I’m sure there is a lot of good info here - thanks. Sounds like 6 drops is what was recommended per 1 gallon of distilled water? I will use 5 just to be conservative, all I want is to reduce the surface tension without adding an extra rinse step. I am using the TergiKleen tube sold on Amazon, not the single solution industrial sized container. I don’t really want to buy an extra drop bottle and pipettes, trying to keep it as simple as possible for new records.
TergiKleen is a 50/50 blend of A blend of two nonionic surfactants – Tergitol™ 15-S-3 (not water soluble) and Tergitol™ 15-S-9 (water soluble). Not being water soluble, 15-S3 does not act as a wetting agent. So, 5-drops/gallon may not do much. However, if you add enough (~10-drops) to get full wetting from the 15-S-9, you have an essentially 5-drops equivalent of insoluble 15-S-3 which adds to the risk of residue if you do not rinse. You may need to play with the # of drops to get the best you can w/o rinsing.
I added Tergikleen to my regimen a few weeks ago after also noting no adhesion during cleaning with water alone. I decided to place one (now two) drops into the reservoir before pouring the water into the tank. Cleaning results were better, but still not outstanding. I am a little concerned this approach results in an inferior MIXTURE, rather than a suspended solution. I don't believe the single degas run creates sufficient turbulence, does it? By the way, with the old records I am cleaning, there has never been a doubt that something is happening. All I need to do is to look at the color of the water in the reservoir and the particles that cling to the walls when draining the water.
I received shipment notification today from both Happy Feet and FedEx for an impending shipment (It was received by FedEx International today). And yesterday, I received the partial refund check for my former Monks Prodigy with a sincere apology from the dealer.
Thanks for the replies, that is a good point about the oil soluble component of the TergiKleen. Perhaps it is best for me to hold that product back just for old and used records I put through the Spin Clean for a deep cleaning beforehand I want a light, no-rinse surfactant to put new and previously cleaned records through the HumminGuru without any residue, preferably something in a small container.
The 15S3 is soluble in 15S9, which in turn is soluble in water. I think both together is desirable over just the 15S9. JMO...
Tergitol 15-S-3 has a function as a defoaming agent - TERGITOL™ 15-S-3 Surfactant Technical Data Sheet (dow.com) note that the statement that its compatible with other surfactants indicates that it does not have a negative reaction. Otherwise, as a defoaming agent its purpose becomes counterproductive for how it's used other than in applications where foam is a problem - The Secret of Defoaming Agents (Part One) - IRO CHEM HEDP Website (irohedp.com) or the concentration is high enough. If you dilute it down too far, then you compromise the emulsion capability of the 15-S-9 but if you use Tergikleen at the recommended concentration 15-20 drops/gal, then you risk the 15-S-3 forming on the surface as a defoaming agent so when you drain down, a film is left on the record. The combination of 15-S-3 and 15-S-9 was developed by the National Library Of Canada January 1996 The Care and Handling of Recorded Sound Materials (culturalheritage.org). The US Library of Congress (LOC) does not use this formula - they use Tergitol 15-S-7 for lacquer - Cleaning Lacquer Discs — NEDCC but the 15-S-9 we can buy cheaply Tergitol 15-S-3 and 15-S-9 Surfactant | TALAS (talasonline.com) is equivalent although the 0.5% the LOC says they use is way above necessary - need lots of DIW to rinse.
I assume the vibrations/cleaning only happens where the Lp is submerged in the water, does it really matter if the Lp is dry after coming out of the water?
I wonder if the company has made any changes or used different parts to address issues that users have reported thus far, including the ones mentioned in this thread.
No, but there are numerous reports in this thread of machines malfunctioning within months of purchase- just wondering what's been done to rectify these issues. Not sure if the solutions were posted before this thread veered into an endless series of chemistry equations.
From what I've gathered from this thread, and from owning a HumminGuru, is that the problems have been relatively few for what must be a large number of units that came into production quickly, and customer service from HumminGuru has been present and effective. The internet has a predictable way of perseverating on the negative, no wait, that's people in general... I think HumminGuru hit a homerun. It's easy, extremely effective, and neatly designed.
The record is submerged, of course, while they machine is running. When using water only, it doesn't "stick" to the record while it is in the cycle. Using a drop or two of Tergikleen in the reservoir helps. Cleaned records I then rinse before air drying in a rack. My question related to how the drops of Tergikleen "clump" in the water, and whether the degas cycle provided enough circulation of the Tergikleen to break up the clumps in the water.
just use that multi tool stick to stir the water a bit? I just put 10 drops in a gallon jug of distilled water and shake it up. Don't overthink it.
The simple and compact design is very tempting, of course it's only a 'homerun' until it stops working lol. The concern is that early reports of malfunctioning machines suggests flaws in the design and/or electronics used that can be expected to repeat themselves.
I agree. I was skeptical, did my research across multiple forums, found one or two complaints among a lot of happy buyers. For example, I was a bit hesitant to buy a start up product, what if the company goes out of business and I need a new part or have to wait months to order new parts from overseas? Well just including spare parts and filters was a nice touch. Look how many millions of pages we have here of complaints on the Mofi situation or piano warbles. Audio nerds are nitpickers by nature and complain long and loud, you just don't find that volume of complaints over this product. I don't expect this to be an heirloom product I pass down to my kids in 30 years, but my squeaky clean after a few years was getting pretty rickety, and I'm getting my money's worth out of the HG now.
Yes but the question is why do you need the water to 'stick' to the record when it's not actually being cleaned?? (ie out of the water). I'd expect the US vibrations would break the surface tension where it's needed- in the water.
I wonder if @austingonzo is dropping in dirty records straight from the used bin, or not enough tergikleen? I've been mostly doing records I'd previously vacuum cleaned so they're not filthy. And thrift store filthy records, I'll run under the sink for a few seconds before putting it in the HG to get that first layer of dust dirt hair off. With tergikleen, my records do have the water "sticking" to the record as it rotates out of the water. Maybe I use too much tergikleen? 10-12 drops in a gallon jug? But I do a rinse in plain distilled water, so I don't think a few extra drops of tergikleen hurt anything.
Forget Mofi, logic suggests that malfunctioning electronics in a brand new product will be a problem for other machines as well. No amount of consumer research can fix defective parts/design. If the problems are easily fixed and/or new parts supplied by HG that's great, I have no problem going inside the machine. I can accept some risk at this price point for such a convenient machine, just want to be sure I can fix the problem when it arises.
I would give any filthy/grimey Lp a quick wet scrub before using any RCM, only takes a few seconds and makes a world of difference.
There are so many conversational threads in play. My comments were largely meant as a reaction to what 00Diablo had said. "The issue I’m noting is the record seems to remain almost completely dry as it rotates in the plain distilled water, there must be too much surface tension." I replied with my experience with distilled water (matches his) and with application of a couple of drops directly on the reservoir (mixed results - some grunge and fingerprints remain). Many of the record I clean have been through previous rounds of manual cleaning, so I'm not necessarily skipping pretreatment. I'm just not seeing the miracles I expected from this combination.
