Interesting comments on Shure V15 III tracking force and tracking ability

I have a printout of the same question (except it involved a Technics SL-1200M3D) and the answer from Shure's website from August 2001. According to Answer ID 1529, the anti-skating force should be set to the actual stylus pressure on the record, in this case 1 gram.

Paul

 

In my opinion, 1 gram tracking weight is too low.

 

My 707 is the black version and "looks" better to me although I have no valid reason to suspect that it is actually superior to its falshier sibling.

I have experimented with various test records and it is clear that the higher tracking force settings work better with the V15 III.

The tracking force compensation is broken ( ham fisted user and flimsy construction is a bad combination ),but the sound of this arm and cartridge with my Ariston Rd80sl is wonderous.

 

If it's what the manufacturer recommends, there's no problem. V15-V recommended force is 1 to 1.25 grams, which is how I've used mine for 20+ years. Other carts--no way.

 

I think 1 gram is too low as well, regardless of what the manufacturer suggests. Perhaps it depends on the tonearm, but one thing is clear right now and I've done a lot of experimenting: this V15 III I have performs best at 1.25 to 1.5 grams. It sounds best in this region and it also scores the highest on the Hi Fi News Test lp in all areas. At 1 gram or less, it most definitely does not track as pristinely as with the heavier force adjustment.

Regarding anti-skate....this needs to be adjusted by ear, like Geoff says. The advice from a manufacturer in a turntable manual is often times either inaccurate or simply provides the absolute very basic bear minimum of information necessary to get even the most clumsy novice off the ground and listening to vinyl. Those who are serious about extracting the most out of their analog experience and also preserving the life of their valuable lps will most often take things several steps further and in many cases, simply ignore the owners manual all together in favor of universal knowledge and common sense. Not only that, but some audiophiles don't even believe in anti-skate....but that's another story. And finally, don't always trust that the dials and gages on your turntable are 100% accurate. This is why we use scales, protractors, and test records.

 

prix, what about us MMF 2.1 owners? Unless I mod the counter-sink, my choice of anti-skate is either on or off.

 

The manufacturer knows best what they designed their cartridge to track at. Start playing a V15 Type V at 1.5 or 2 grams and you could damage it OR your records. Shure would not recommend a 1 gram force if the cart was performing sub-optimally at that point or if it was known to damage records either. That fact that this cart tracks the test records properly at both ends of the tracking range is testament to that. Too light of a force, and the stylus would knock around in the grooves, causing distortion and wear.

An MR (Shure's modification of the "line contact" or "Shibata" type of diamond cut) stylus with too much tracking force acts like a chisel on records, just as it does if it's even slightly misaligned. Likewise, too much tracking force deflects the angle of the stylus beyond what it was designed for, which has the same effect as using an incorrect VTA. (The cantilever pivots in one location, and too much tracking force pushes the stylus further toward the cartridge body, which is like effectively decreasing the VTA.) Stay within the range they recommend, and playing vinyl is a safe bet. In the Type V's case the suspension (very compliant), the cantilever (extremely lightweight) and the MR stylus (very narrow profile) are all designed for the 1 to 1.25 gram tracking range, which is why it out-tracks just about everything else out there: lightweight, compliant components that accelerate quickly and accurately follow what's in the groove. Just simple physics at work here.

FWIW: I keep mine in the middle of the range to stay on the safe side, but also used mine for years at just over 1 gram with no ill effects and great sound.

Nobody here has to like it in their opinion, but that's how Shure designed the Type V model from the ground up, and that 1 - 1.25 gram range is where the Type V works at its optimum performance. Go find all the original articles and reviews written about this model back in the early 80s when it first came out--I read most of those articles before spending what was, to me, a small fortune back then.

Now, other Shure models and carts from other manufacturers...they should not be played in this range. Go by what the manufacturer recommends, then use your ears to tell you which end of their recommended range you want to use it at. There is no arbitrary good/bad tracking force out there.

 

Exactly, and your results on the test record confirm it: the Type III was not designed for a 1 gram force. The cantilever (via weight) and suspension (via its compliance) determine the mass of the assembly and, ultimately, at what tracking force will get the assembly moving properly. IOW, 1 gram isn't enough to get that little thing wigglin' in the grooves.

When I was a young 'un, I used to futz with the force on my cheaper Rat Shack (BSR) turntable, cranking the force down to 1 gram or half a gram with my old grey Grado cartridge--the sound would definitely "fuzz" at those lower forces. Two grams was what I normally used, and it never sounded right at lower tracking forces.

 

Don't worry, Rudy. I wouldn't exceed the recommended tracking force. I'm sticking within it's limits. I'm currently tracking at 1.25 grams.

 

The MMF 2.1 has that post that sticks off the back of the tonearm, pointing toward the back of the unit. There should be three notches in it. Notch 1, closest to the tonearm, is for 0.84 to 1.25 grams. Notch 2, middle, is for 1.25 to 1.70 grams. Notch 3 is for 1.70 grams and up. Not exact, but at least in the ballpark.

The only ways to tweak it as I can see is to either move the string between the notches and maybe cement it in place with a small dab of silicone, or set it at a lower than optimum notch and add a tiny bit of weight to the anti-skating weight.

 

Thanks Rudy... I forgot all about the notches. I was reading through the thread and posted the question without even looking at the table! Now I'm having a "DOH!" moment.