Iron Maiden Remasters

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by old school, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Is it a possiblity that this is the way the masters actually sound. Why would they sound all the same? The mixes are are not going to be the same. Doesn't mean they used EQ. (SOBs probably did!)

    Let's not give up hope yet. Must you guys depress me right at tea time? Ahhhh!
     
  2. bamaaudio

    bamaaudio Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    First got into the band as a teen around 1999 and so the '98 remasters were available to buy even at the local Wal Mart and K Mart type stores back then - they are the ones I owned and was most familiar for their 80s catalog. Never really thought that they sounded 'bad,' but it's been a while. The Priest remasters, on the other hand, I always thought were not worth owning.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
    The Hud likes this.
  3. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    I don't care how the original masters sound...if it says "remastered", i want an improved sound on the new editions, compared to previous editions...but they missed another chance to get it right.
    The 1998 remasters were ok for the first 5 albums, but totally messed up for the stuff from 1986 on...the new remasters sound like taken from tapes affected by aging (slightly muddy in some places) or are badly eq-ed (7th Son Of A 7th Son)...the only proper way to listen to old Iron Maiden albums is still original vinyl (from Germany and UK).
     
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  4. The Hud

    The Hud Where The Demons Dwell

    Since I only listen to Maiden on CD, do I need to go to timeout and think about what I did?
     
  5. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    The JP remasters are an abomination. Luckily most of the old CDs are available easily for not much money. For some reason old, unremastered Maiden CDs are more expensive and will take more legwork to track down. The '98s - haven't heard them all but I wouldn't exactly call them "good". They are not as bad as the JP remasters though...
     
  6. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Yes, agreed. Should be improved sir. I am there with you 100 %.

    But ahhh, the first five albums were not done well. The 1998 Tragic Remaster of NOTB was nasty. They had brightened it up and taken down the cloud way too much (90-250hz). And they used multi-band compression on them which was very popular at the time. Multi-band compression was created to fix frequency problems on masters and such, not invented to bend masters over the table and screw up the tonal balance of the album. The 1998 Tragic Remaster sounds nothing like the original album or the master. I have an original Japanese and Canadian pressing of NOTB and a RAW 24/192 version (no edits, fades, no click or pops removed, no compression, EQ or normalization.) I managed to score from an ex-girlfriend whose older brother works at EMI. I know what the album sounds like and the 1998 Tragic Remasters are not them.
     
  7. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Don't let Steve hear you say that!

    Seriously though. I hear the new remasters are Bias is a high frequency added to the recording to prevent distortion at high frequencies. When bias is set "by the book" it should be set for flat frequency response low distortion.. . And that is not better.
     
  8. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    You are lucky. To you that is the way they sound. But trust me those 1998 Tragic Remasters sound NOTHING like the original albums/CD/cassettes.

    But they are loud. And over compressed is over compressed. Can you not hear how loud they are?
     
  9. Son of Ziggy

    Son of Ziggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    I’m guessing he just knew no different.
     
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  10. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Lucky. Ignorance is bliss.
     
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  11. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Ignore this post. One post from another thread accidentally got posted. That is why the whole post makes no sense.

    COULD SOME KIND GORT REMOVE THIS POST OF MINE. IT IS EMBRASING AND THEN SOME. THANK YOU.
     
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  12. bamaaudio

    bamaaudio Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Don't recall at all. This was when I was a teenager and listening to cds on a portable discman. The original cds were not sold in local stores and it was also at a time before I started really buying music online or had any kind of idea which pressings were more preferable. The internet was far less organized and developed two decades ago and resources were a small fraction compared to today. However, with the Judas Priest remasters, even back then I could notice something seemed a bit 'off.'
     
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  13. xaml

    xaml Active Member

    Hi there Mr. Morris, while this might make some sense economically, artistically I agree with you for this to be very sad indeed. I wish you well in regards to your medical condition.
    The first items that I got for this band were the "A Real Live One" and "A Real Dead One" cassettes around the time that they came out. I still have them and will hold on to them. They are the reason why I sometimes thought that "Bring Your Daughter" is part of "Fear Of The Dark" as well as "The Trooper", "Two Minutes To Midnight" and "Run To The Hills" being part of the same album.
    I found a shirt featuring the iconic album cover of the second part of the live album mentioned above earlier today and in commemorating how it introduced me to the band, I simply had to order two. :D
    Trying to purchase their standout albums on compact disc now without complications seems to be like selecting from unsatisfactory decisions, but oh well, perhaps we should also acknowledge that our relative wealth, which we should not take for granted, contributes to our high expectations.
     
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  14. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Come on guys! You can see this post makes no sense at all. Please remove it.
     
  15. Jam757

    Jam757 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    I want to cast another vote that all recent Iron Maiden remasters from 1998 on are complete and utter GARBAGE. Worthless discs. Overall their mastering of all albums of the Brave New World era has come up far short more often than not. I'd say the only passable ones are Brave New World and Book Of Souls. Book Of Souls Live Chapter also has some pretty nice (for new era) mastering. For Maiden CD's I own most of the US originals, a 1988 UK Seventh Son, and unfortunately a garbage 1998 self-titled. I'm going to be replacing that soon.
     
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  16. Son of Ziggy

    Son of Ziggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    It’s amazing to me how many younger maiden fans have only heard the 98 cd’s.
     
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  17. Diablo Griffin

    Diablo Griffin Synthpop, City Pop, and Rock Enthusiast

    Location:
    United States
    Not me thankfully. I'm 23. The only '98 remasters I've heard are the debut (don't remember how it sounds), Piece of Mind (same deal), and Somewhere in Time (one of the worst masterings ever). All of my Maiden CDs are a mix of originals and 2 disc Castle reissues. I have heard the 2015 remasters of all the 90s studio albums except No Prayer, but I think they're too dull and squished for my tastes. Gotta get an original Fear of the Dark one day.
     
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  18. Man at C&A

    Man at C&A Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    It's all they've had though. If they're not buying second hand and just want to listen to some Maiden, they had no other choice.
     
  19. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Utter garbage......mmmmm.....No argument there!

    I share your anger over poor mastering but the truth is Modern Metal mixes (especially with THREE GUITARS) is not going to sound good. There is just too much "BAAAA TAA TAAAAA BOOM BOOM BAAAAA!!" to make a clean mix. You can't mix a pair of drums, three loud as* guitars and bass playing modern Metal and expect the subtleties of Dark Side of the Moon. And don't think I haven't tried! What is worse is the new guy who took over for Adrian way back when (what's his face?) uses a frequency spreader which to my understanding is covering up poor Harris. (Hello! Bass player here....Can anybody here me? Harris plays one low G.....But it is like the sound of one hand clapping.) Three guitars is just too much. If you had one electric guitar playing lead, one acoustic twelve string playing rhythm chords and a banjo picking that is different. Or one playing lead, the other rhythm and the third comes in for the solo or two. But that isn't what we have hear. We often have this wall of three guitars BAAAAA!! Most of the time they playing the same thing. Nothing wrong with it but no way can you get a smooth mix. And on top of it all The Cave Man records it live. Great for performance. But sound wise not so good.

    Brave New World was mixed rhythm heavy according to The Caveman. (Not my opinion so don't argue with me about it. Send all you "Brave New World LP is not mixed rhythm heavy" emails to Kevin Shirley o.k. thanks.)

    I can just hear some members now, 'Doesn't sound mixed rhythm heavy to me..."

    What was I talking about?...oh yea the thing with the mastering.... The joke is not every album is mastered. They are a few artists who would rather set fire to their new shiny Wave file master or half inch infant then hand it over to a Bastering Engineer....Sorry, I mean Mastering Butcher....No...Butchered Mastered tape....
    ....master engineer. For example the CD of DANCE OF DEATH is not butchered.....Sorry! I mean not mastered by anyone.

    I have the making of the album on the bonus disk of DANCE OF DEATH ON TOUR. According to the Caveman he sent the 24/96 file to some famous mastering engineer (Bob Ludwig?) and he didn't like the mix. Apparently the bottom end was all wrong, etc, etc , etc. So much that poor old South African Kevin Shirley began to doubt his own mixing abilities. So the famous mastering engineer fatened up the bass and zapped up the treble. And when The Caveman played "The mastered" version for Harris the bass Player exclaimed, "THIS ISN'T MY MIX!"


    In a fit of anger Harris, the bass player of Iron Maiden tracked down the evil mastering engineer and slayed his Equalizer of Doom with the Analog Sword of ClassAtubepassive..The very weapon Queen One Inch had given him in the Valley of RIAA.....


    O.k. that didn't happen....


    Harris told The Caveman just to print the demo CD he gave him.

    DANCE OF DEATH was recorded on two synchronized two inch 24 tracks (46 tracks due to sync pulses) machines. I think they are either Studer 827 or A800.
    And was mixed down to analog 1/2 width at 30 ips. It was also mixed to 24/96. The CD was made for Harris to listen to at home or wherever. Kevin Shirley had made it with a real old DAC. In fact he pushed the **** out of it. In other words no - 3 peak. Bam! Peaks at zero and some overs. Apparently Harris likes the strained sound of the old converter.

    So to make a long story short what you hear on the CD of DANCE OF DEATH is this: straight off the stereo output of the analog board, into an old 90's Professional DAC and then the untouched 16/44.1 bit stream was sent straight to a HB Pro burner. The CD you have was made from this!.Hey...How is that for a flat transfer?
    Careful what you wish for...


    And A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH was not sent to a mastering engineer. Kevin would mater it himself. So beyond a little db here or there, some editing and normalization it is pretty much 95% the mix. No compression. Many people complain about the sound. One comment I fondly remember was, "It sounds like it was mixed in a cave...." Well that is the mix. At least with DANCE OF DEATH and A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH we are getting what the artist intended.

    I personally love the sound of Brave New World and The Final Frontier..Trust me..With a $2000 CD player (11 years ago - Moon CD-1) it sounds great.

    You really need to drain your bank account for these mixes. $2000 is kind of cheap.....You really need to get a loan or something to get a really good DAC that will soften up those 1998 Maiden Tragic Remasters. I doubt it....Nothing can help those pieces of junk sound good. How could any mastering engineer sit there declare, "These are great."
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  20. Jam757

    Jam757 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    I own all of them on CD and vinyl and was happy to at least get the Iron Maiden vinyl reissues as even thought they're not perfect they definitely improve on the CD versions (talking about post 2000). A Matter of Life And Death has that raw muddy unmixed sound. Brave New World was quite well done and I can agree that Final Frontier sounds decent as well. Personally I found the mastering on Firepower to be far superior and closer to the sound we remember from the 80's of a well-mastered metal album. I wish someone would get in Steve's ear sometimes and talk him out of some of these decisions.
     
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  21. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    But that's the mix: A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH. And this was mixed in a treated studio on expensive pro monitors. Muddy is just what three loud guitars, drums, bass and vocals sound like in this case. Kevin has been using the same microphones for the two albums prior so why should MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH sound any different. .. And yet it does.

    The "mud" as you say is caused by a ancient Druid 2nd century spell.....Ooops!
    ...Caused by lower mids and/or the cloud (90 - 250 hz) and even excessive low bass. Unfortunately most mastering engineers will just make matters worse in an effort to reduce the "mud." Most likely you might get this:

    All at Q of 1
    40 hz - 4 db
    150 hz - 3 db
    500 hz - 2 db
    3 khz + 3 db
    8 khz + 3 db

    And this is if you are lucky. It would get rid of the mud then you would have harsh, bright and bass shy garbage. Careful what you wish for. Now me...I would remix. Or to master:

    All at Q of 1.
    150 hz - 1.5 db
    500 hz - 1.5 db
    3 khz + 1.5 db
    12 khz + 2.5 db

    Would clear up the mud a bit but it wouldn't change the tonal balance of the master. Would use a nice Manely Massive Passive. It's a passive all tube mastering EQ. Every (well amost every) good professional mastering studio has one. Or something like it.
     
  22. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Only a deaf person could say it's a good mix.
     
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  23. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Compared to the sonic mess of Dance Of Death, I'd be inclined to agree as well. Taken on its own, it's another hairy mess. I can take this kind of mix on a Motörhead album, but to have Maiden sound like this makes me wanna cry. The middle/solo bit on The Man Who Would Be King... What the hell's going on there? You can't even tell who's taking the leads, it's just a big fat hairy ball of sound - reminds me of the kind of recordings we'd do of our amateur bands 25-30 years ago.

    I love this band but it's annoying paying for crap sound when you want to hear their new songs.
     
  24. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    I have mixed a lot of Metal and unfortunately bad sound (not always) can and does happen when recording live in the studio. Especially with three guitars.
    In the studio on the monitors it probably sounded perfect. But everywhere else??
    But that is the mix. A flat transfer. But only on the CD. Not the 24/96 or high depth files! They were mastered and who knows what was done to them.
     
  25. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Well The Caveman insists on recording the band live. And the whole band is happy with the sound. Email the band. Tell them what you are telling us here. We all should. Recording live is great for a band like Rush or a folk band but not Iron Maiden. But then some persons love the sound.
     
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