Iron Maiden Remasters

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by old school, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. Thoughtships

    Thoughtships Forum Resident

    Location:
    Devon, UK
    I hate Shirley mixes.
    It's all drums sounding like someone building a shed, vocals equally loud, with a band in the room next door.

    I long for Martin Birch's warm, guitar-first mixes.
     
  2. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    I must answer all the posts. There is a member that loved the way I over post. He just loves it. This post is for my secret admirer. (Too bad. Deal with it)

    Putting fun and joke aside, I will give THE FINAL FRONTIER another extended listnen And particularly "The Man Who Would Be King."

    In the 70's studios went for the dead sound. They wanted everything as dead as possible. No reverb or echo. They wanted complete control. Hence stuffing the kick with blankets. And taping rugs or bits of carpet underneath the snare and toms. It is dead drum sound 1970 - 1988.
    But now drums get to breath. Everything must breath. Drums sound more real. But honestly I hate the 90's drum sound. No good reason. I just didn't grow up hearing it. I prefer that dead drum sound. But drummers won't do that anymore. I do know one exception. Way back in the 90's Styx decided to record a new version of "Lady." The drummer in question wanted to get the early 70's sound so he STUFFED his kit likewise as formetioned.

    And I firmly believe that the third guitar is messing up the mix. Three lead guitars (most of the time) is too much. And I understand the new guy uses a frequency spreader which covers up poor Harris. (We still care Harris). On my CD the mix of "Monsignor" (one of my most favorite Maiden songs. And yes I know the new guy shared writing credit on this track) sounds weird. On the CD During the bridge of the song Harris sounds like he is only playing one or two notes to the bar.
    The song is waltz time 3/4. Not a musical person..Don't know my circle of fifths.

    sounds like to me....
    E------------F---G
    F------------D---C

    When in fact he is actually playing...
    EEEEEEEEEEEFFFGGGGGGGGGG
    FFFFFFFFFFFDDDCCCCCCCCCCC

    Forgive my childlike presentation. These are the wrong notes because they are written in the key of B flat. The key of my Tenor Saxophone. So the notes had to be transposed. I could be wrong of course. I do not have perfect pitch.


    Anyway maybe the rest of you could hear Harris playing away. I was wondering why Harris was playing bass like a Counrty and Western player?
    That is by a definition a bad mix when whatever the bass Player is playing you never hear it.


    Gave a listen to the song, THE MAN WHO WOULD BE KING. Yes, I see what you mean. There sounds like two guitar solos at once and they sound buried. I assuming The Caveman wanted that on purpose. Bad choice. Wow! Guitar solos that are low and thin sounding in the mix....LOL Maybe it will catch on. A new trend. You never know.
     
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  3. Son of Ziggy

    Son of Ziggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    I gave Dance of Death a listen today, the songs sounded very mediocre, the mix wasn’t as bad as some of the Shirley albums, but many songs are over cooked, featuring three bloody guitar solos in a row. Many of the solos seem uninspired, and done in one take (apart from Smith’s maybe?)
     
  4. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    You put a smile on my face sir. Thank you.
    "...Three bloody guitar solos in a row...uninspired..." LOVE IT!

    I thought the solos were o.k. but why THREE? How about one good solo and then we don't need the other two. They record live so they probably were done in a row. Although I will tell what might have been done (fasten your seat belt!): They each did one long guitar solo. Later when they have all gone home and the Caveman is bored, he takes the best (LOL)
    bit from each solo and splices it together into three short solos. Wasn't that good of him? Sort of like a "best of" guitar solos for the song in question. Consider yourself lucky you didn't get one long really bad solo instead you got the least objectionable parts of all ....3.
     
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  5. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    They album was recorded on two synchronized 2 inch 24 tracks. (No N/R. The Caveman says the machine doesn't need it. And at 70 db A weighted I would agree.) The playback was run through an automated 64 channel board. 46 tracks plus all the effect returns channels. 54 channels at least. And then they are the group outs.

    All the mix moves are recorded. The album was mixed down to 24 / 96. This could have been recorded straight to Pro Tools, or a 24 bit Professional recorder which some are capable of backing up the tracks to USB Flash Drives, SD cards or DVD. Or a 24 bit DAT recorder. They do exist but you don't get more than 20 minutes per tape in the 24 /96 format. Might be longer. The 24 / 96 might have been mastered. I have no idea was done to it.

    The album was also mixes down to analog 1/2 inch width tape at 30 ips. This might have been for cutting vinyl but more likely as good quality permanent hard copy.

    It was also mixed down to 16 / 44.1.
    It went straight from the analog board into an old DAC then to the Professional HB burner. The CD anyone can buy was made from this demo disk. The CD is an exact bit for bit copy of that studio burnt demo disk. Not ONE BIT ALTERED. This is the true definition of FLAT TRANSFER. It didn't even go through Pro Tools.

    I know there was a 5.1 mix that is 24 / 88.2 I think. I don't know if the high definition stereo files are 24 /96 or 24 / 44.1. They are offered on-line but I don't know about DVD. But those high definition files might were mastered. Harris at the time was only concerned about the CD.

    With the CD you are getting the real mix that came straight off the board.
     
  6. JediJoker

    JediJoker Audio Engineer/Enthusiast

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Surely you mean *ADC. What's your source for this info?
     
  7. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Misunderstanding.. A DAC is a digital to analog converter. We just assume everyone knows because that's what everyone calls them. You are thinking about the actual conversion - as in weather it's analog to digital or the other way. Unless it's neccessary to the explanation there is no need to say, "It went from the analog board and there was a analog to digital conversion I
    to the DAC...." It is assumed. Since the output is analog and it's going into a DAC. Every professional DAC does both A/D and D/A conversion.

    Kevin Shirely is called "The Caveman" because he records and mixes on all analog equipment. Even on his analog multitracks he uses no N/R. He has earned his name.

    If you are a fan go and get the Death On Tour DVD...There is a bonus disk that goes into the making of the album. 90 % of my posts on Kevin Shirley come from that video.

    FEATURED HIGHLIGHTS FROM DVD:
    - You see the analog two 24 tracks. Truth is most good albums today are done on analog..

    - He mentions sending the stereo mix
    off to famous mastering engineer.

    - on this video you will hear The Caveman say how the bass Player was not happy with mastering job. And said, "That's not my mix." And the bass player also said, "You know the demo CD you made for me?.. Print that. That will be the CD."

    - On the DVD bonus disk the bass player NEVER requests A SECOND MASTERING of the album.

    - The Caveman will talk about all the different versions he made: analog 1/2 inch, 24/96 and the demo CD.

    - And you will hear The Caveman talk about a demo CD that he made for the band. It was made through an old converter. Kevin does all analog including his board..check out the video and you will see it is an analog board. Demos are never mastered. What for? They are just a copy of the mix for the band or record executive scum. *


    Every CD recorder has it's own DAC but that converter most engineers won't use. Most audio engineers will use a much better external converter. The HB CD (which I have used.) is a great little burner. Don't confuse it work those consumer burners. He used an external converter to convert the analog signal from the board and then the digital signal was sent to the HB burner where the CD was made.

    Now there is another way this might have happend. Kevin took his 24/96 master file, ran the digital signal through the converter where the 24/96 file was knocked down to 16 / 44.1 and that PCM stream was sent to the HB burner to make a nice demo.


    Either way it's a flat transfer....No one masters demos....Except me... But I am way way out there.


    It crams a lot into 33 minutes.
    You know sir it might be on Utube. If it isn't I could make a copy to my harddrive and post to you somehow.
     
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  8. JediJoker

    JediJoker Audio Engineer/Enthusiast

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    I'm also a professional. First, I would never call a device that does both analog-to-digital and digital-to-analog conversion a "DAC," and I don't know of any other professional engineers who would (present company excluded). If it's a standalone unit, some might call it an "AD/DA" or simply a "converter" (or set of "converters"). If it's a computer audio interface, then it's an "interface" or—sometimes—also "converter(s)" or "AD/DA." These are the two most common scenarios and three most common terms, in my experience. I find it a bit incredulous that your experience would differ that greatly.

    Second, there are absolutely professional ADCs with no DAC, and vice-versa. Are they rarer? Perhaps, yes, and more esoteric. Nevertheless, your blanket statement is manifestly false.

    Now, back to Maiden! \m/

    Thanks for citing the source! I'm still not sure I'd believe it... Though there's no mastering engineer credited on Discogs, so that may be legit!
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
    john morris likes this.
  9. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Well I do, so you have met one! Yes you are right. The layman just says DAC. and most consumer converters have both. I just assume that I am talking to a layman. I can get real technical and then I lose people.


    I am aware that in the professional field most are either ADC and DAC converters. The bit about every Pro converter doing both conversion was a mistake. I was thinking about our own converters that do both. Even the Sony 1600 was ADC Only. But our custom 64×24×4 Bur-Brown converter does: 64 channels of A/D/C
    24 channels of D/A/C (some do!)

    But of course ours is the exception. Well they are other custom made converters. Sony made for one for a French studio in 1996.
    32 channels of 24/96 ADC
    32 Channels of 24/96 DAC

    Of course as you say rare. Very right of course. I appreciate you correcting me.
    So my statement is not false. Highly unlikely but not false.

    I will correct and say:
    The the analog signal went from the board onto the ADC converter and the signal was sent to the burner. Or the 24 /96 file (taken from the analog
    board earlier....Do you know if that is an SLL board he is using?) was taken down to 16/41 and burnt a copy. Either way I still stand by the flat

    Working in the industry I assumed you know how Kevin Shirley got the nickname "Caveman." I hear he mixes old school as in LOUD. But just a rumour.

    Getting old and I suffer from insomnia. I
    Once called our guy to fix our 3348HR.
    When he said what DASH was it I said half asleep, "A Pioneer 22 track.." which of course is silly. Pioneer doesn't make pro gear let alone DASH multitracks. And there is no 22 track format in analog or digital. So....That one beats the DAC one.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  10. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Correction. I was using DAC has a word for a converter forgetting for the most part that in our business converters don't provide both ADC and DAC. They are very few exceptions. Well our Bur-Brown converter does. For the last 15 years all our converters provided digital to analog conversion as well as analog to digital to conversion. But understand this is not the norm.
     
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  11. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    I wonder if you could help me since you are an audio engineer. Although I no longer work at My Uncle's studio anymore I still helping out with parts. Do you know where I could get spare parts for a SLL 4076 G / G+? And do you know any other company that relaps heads beside JDF Magnetics? And my Uncle is looking for 205 and/ or 206 reels of tape. Do you know a source for discontinued tape stock sir?

     
  12. black sheriff

    black sheriff Magic City

    You should ask him this in a private message. Thank you. :)
     
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  13. Instant Dharma

    Instant Dharma Spray paint!!! Avoid breathing the vapors

    Location:
    CoCoCo, Ca
    I thought Shirley was called “Caveman” because he looks like a Caveman.
     
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  14. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Oh good advice. Thanks.
     
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  15. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Ahhhhhh!!! I hate it
    ..I really hate those stupid picture disks. They go to all the trouble to use the original master and press it on 180 gram vinyl and then ruin the thing with the PICTURE DISK (Pulling out hair from head) No picture disk can be good. O.K. decent is the best they can do. And that's if your lucky. I purchased a the vinyl version of A MATTER OF LIFE A DEATH (2008) and it was all picture disk. It turned my Rega P3 and Sumiko high Output MC into a $120 Dual table with a $30 MM cartridge. And the surface noise was so loud. How could Maiden put out an inferior product like that?
     
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  16. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    LOL LOL LOL
     
  17. moofassa_ca

    moofassa_ca Senior Member

    I bought the picture disc in 2008 as well. Played it once and shelved it. Nice to look at.. I bought the 2017 Chris Bellman cut and I'm pretty happy with that.
     
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  18. steveharris

    steveharris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mass
    They sucked since 1989
     
  19. Son of Ziggy

    Son of Ziggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    That’s a bit harsh, isn’t it?
     
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  20. steveharris

    steveharris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mass
    :p
     
  21. CDlovingKIWI

    CDlovingKIWI Well-Known Member

    Location:
    New Zealand
    I couldn't agree more. Maiden in the 21st Century is just a tad over indulgent and the songs seem to drag on far to long for my liking.
     
  22. JediJoker

    JediJoker Audio Engineer/Enthusiast

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Especially coming from Steve Harris!
     
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  23. Son of Ziggy

    Son of Ziggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    I agree, Murray has been sort of on autopilot for sometime due to Gers’s influence.
     
  24. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    No sir. They really do sucks like a Amsterdam......Vaccum cleaner. Find an old 80's vinyl pressing of Number Of The Beast.

    I am waiting...Come on. Hurry up and find one dude! Run to the used record store...Let's go..Come on...RUN!


    Put it on any turntable with any cartridge.
    The vinyl will sound like a different mix from the 1998 Tragic Remasters. The engineer butchered it. They chained the poor master up and whipped it half to death.
     
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  25. steveharris

    steveharris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mass
    One of my all time favorites,I seen them live plenty of times from 2000 on.I just wish all that live 80`s stuff was on vinyl like beast Over Hammersmith.
     
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