Is it me or the CS 6006 CD of Black Sabbath is the best version ever ?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Dissidence, Jun 27, 2019.

  1. Freezerburn

    Freezerburn Bent Out Of Shape

    Location:
    Pennsylvania USA
    Does this version still have the identical tape flaws as the original 86 Castles?
     
  2. Freezerburn

    Freezerburn Bent Out Of Shape

    Location:
    Pennsylvania USA
    Haha got it
     
  3. rnranimal

    rnranimal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    No, you are correct. The CS and WB are pretty similar sounding with the CS sounding like a generation higher. Meehan seemed to grab anything for the CS CDs. Maybe even something like a commercial cassette. I know at least one was vinyl sourced. Others seem to be sourced from Castle CDs.
     
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  4. Dissidence

    Dissidence Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    France
    Refresh me the memory. Except for Warning, what tape flaws, where exactly ?
    And I'll compare the s/t Castle CD with the Castle "The Ozzy Osbourne Years" Boxset.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
  5. blacksabbathrainbow

    blacksabbathrainbow Sabbnatic

    Location:
    Berlin
    Thanks. Had the first WB CD of the s/t been released prior to the CS, my guess would be that CS simply used some kind of copy (possibly CD > reel) of the WB CD. However, if it is true that the first CS CD of the s/t was released prior to the first WB CD, then I am puzzled: maybe Meehan had indeed taken with him what in hindsight seems to have been the only proper UK tape copy of WW, or otherwise he would indeed have had to use an LP-rip or cassette-rip of one of the WB releases - in which case, however, I must say that the CS WW sound surprisingly good.

    So as long as the Sabbath/Meehan contract was effective, the right to release Sabbath's first six albums was split between WB and Meehan? (Just wondering, because most Sabbath CS releases seem to have been released in the USA and Germany.)
     
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  6. Freezerburn

    Freezerburn Bent Out Of Shape

    Location:
    Pennsylvania USA
    Paranoid : War Pigs and Iron Man
    Sabotage: Hole in the sky, Symptom and Meglomania

    That's it to the best of my knowledge.
     
  7. rnranimal

    rnranimal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    It's possible the tape was a dub sent from WB to Europe and then he took it. Which could then mean the CS was a generation higher than the tape used for the WB. It's definitely not from vinyl but I'd have to check it over closer to see if I think there's any possibility it was taken from commercial cassette. Probably not, though. Commercial reel to reel maybe.

    I also don't know the details of what Meehan was given in the lawsuit. If any tapes or right to dubs were included. Maybe WB had to dub him copies. It's just all wild speculation, though. All I really know is the CS WW source is better than anything released digitally in Europe for decades to come. But not quite as good as the source WB/Rhino has used.
     
  8. Dissidence

    Dissidence Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    France
    OK. I'll compare these Castle CDs with the Boxset, but I always listen to Paranoid on the Intercord and Sabotage on the WB. So, my ears will not be sure...
    This boxset is great only for the s/t (Castle without pre-emphasis and slighty more dB), because it omits all the instrumentals (Orchid, Laguna Sunrise, etc.)
     
  9. Freezerburn

    Freezerburn Bent Out Of Shape

    Location:
    Pennsylvania USA
    I was going to only use it for those flawed tracks on the castle versions. It sounds like the ozzy years versions are louder so not exactly the same as the castles. But that can be easily fixed using Foobar and goldwave to make them identical.
     
  10. blacksabbathrainbow

    blacksabbathrainbow Sabbnatic

    Location:
    Berlin
    I am aware of the tape flaws in Iron Man SotU and Megalomania, but what's the problem with War Pigs? Where does the tape problem occur?

    I bet that the 3xCD box set contains exactly the same flaws as the 1986 Castle CDs. Anyway, thanks for checking, I am interested in your results.
     
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  11. Dissidence

    Dissidence Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    France
    Same sound glitch for Iron Man at 1'00-1'02 (Castle, Boxset), like the Intercord CD.
    It never bothered me however. This is almost imperceptible on the Intercord.
     
  12. Music_dude

    Music_dude Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Very true... I have the Intercord as well and have to really pay attention in order to pick up any anomalies. The casual listener probably wouldn’t notice anything amiss.
     
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  13. Freezerburn

    Freezerburn Bent Out Of Shape

    Location:
    Pennsylvania USA
    For War Pigs IIRC there is tape drag intermintantly for about the first minute.
    Same for Hole In The Sky at the beginning of the track.
     
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  14. lapepalz

    lapepalz Well-Known Member

    How about Castle 1986 ? I think it's better. I prefer SACD.
     
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  15. Tim1954

    Tim1954 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    I don’t know the particulars, but as the Creative Sounds are what would be called “budget” releases, maybe they slide through that way? I don’t think Warner would be impacted or in any way limited as to what they want to release.

    In the UK and Europe it is also confusing, as Castle purchasing Nems in 1983 meant they were releasing the same albums but also more licensing of comps all over the place, and yet Phonogram also had rights to release albums.

    If there is a catalog more convoluted than Sabbath’s, it might only be Elvis Presley. When you think about how many labels were releasing these albums and all of the comps it is crazy.

    I also suspect Sabbath may never have an exact accounting of their sales. The most recent estimates seem to now be putting their worldwide sales at 100 million, but I personally would not doubt for a second that they might not have millions never properly reported due to the absolute mess that was control of their catalog. It really is one of the most complicated stories in music history.
     
  16. rnranimal

    rnranimal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    I just checked out the Ozzy Years 3CD set and it’s quite noticeably brighter than the ‘86 CDs. Not as bright as with PE intact but a good bit brighter than the ‘86 CDs when de-emphasized. I think they took the PE transfers and used EQ to make them less bright instead of proper de-emphasis.
     
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  17. Omnio

    Omnio _ _ _ ____ ____ _ _ _

    Location:
    L.A.
    I have went through pretty much all the cd editions of this album but I have never heard the SACD version. I have finally settled with the Pearce remastered 2 disc japanese SHM cd edition. I have a cd player as a source and many times the SHM layer does make a difference. I have made the same cd burned onto a disc and it sounded different to these ears, less pleasing. But it might be my imagination. Anyhow, I still miss Wicked World as it is located on the second disc.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Freezerburn

    Freezerburn Bent Out Of Shape

    Location:
    Pennsylvania USA
    Thanks for ruling these out for me. I thought I might use 3 of the tracks for the first 3 on the the 86 Castle of Sabotage.
    The brightness is a deal breaker. Sounds like they botched the mastering.
     
  19. blacksabbathrainbow

    blacksabbathrainbow Sabbnatic

    Location:
    Berlin
    WW on disc 2 of the 2009 Deluxe is very bad anyway, just like any other UK release of the song. That song you need from WB.
     
  20. MrEWhite

    MrEWhite Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    The SHM-SACD wins by a long shot to me because it's closest to the original vinyl to my ears.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  21. Neilson77

    Neilson77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nottingham UK
    Personally i think the original UK vinyl and 2016 CD sound great. What is so special about the sound of the creative sounds CD which would be from a US copy master tape?
     
  22. Dissidence

    Dissidence Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    France
    Like I said it already, this is very subjective. The original 6006 has, imho, the best/flat US masters digital transfert.
    Without pre-emphasis filter (my pick) or with it (Roland's recommandation). I listen Black Sabbath since nearly 25 years.
    And I played in a local metal band for ten years. We sounded like the 6006 on Behind The Wall Of Sleep/N.I.B. (Drums, Bass, Guitar).
    Laney amps of course, but Hamer guitar (Judas Priest), etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
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  23. Neilson77

    Neilson77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nottingham UK
    Would you say that the US masters sound close sound quality wise to the UK masters? Would have thought the releases sourced from the UK master tapes sound the best.
     
  24. Dissidence

    Dissidence Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    France
    The US masters are more musical than the UK ones. The guitar has a correct smiley face EQ tonality.
    And the drums sound like drums (cymbals, toms). Too much mids frequencies on the UK masters. We'd the 6006, the Castle (pre-emphasis analogic filter applied by our CD player of course) and first remasters (1996).
     
  25. Freezerburn

    Freezerburn Bent Out Of Shape

    Location:
    Pennsylvania USA
    I've tried the 86 Castle (de-emphed in Foobar), the SACD (yesterday) and the 6006-2 CS. The SACD has the best detail, but the output level is too high. The CS is from a higher generation source. For me the Castle is the best option, with Wicked World from TUC. With the addition of this new version of WW, I'm a happy camper.
     

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