Is it worth upgrading from a Dynavector DV20x2L to a XX-2?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Johnny Vinyl, Jun 15, 2019.

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  1. Johnny Vinyl

    Johnny Vinyl Vinylholic Thread Starter

    Being retired money is always a concern and deciding on the XX-2 is a bit of a stretch, but I'll know in a week or two.
     
  2. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken!

    Location:
    U.S.
    I relate to that. I plan to retire in a few years and I've been buying all the gear I want to have while I'm still working full time and drawing bonuses, so I'm not trying to think later about how much I want to pull out of investments for such things.
     
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  3. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    How would you owners describe the sound of the XX-2?
    I had an X2L and liked it but thought it was a touch thick in the midrange and lacking in the high end air. Bass and dynamics were excellent though but in the end I went with an Ortofon Cadenza Blue which is super transparent and neutral yet smooth.
     
  4. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    There is indeed. It is better at everything. The 20x is well regarded for tracking extremely well and for having a smooth, warm balance of sound. The XX2 has the DV house sound, which is getting the details from the record but never sounding bright or harsh. The 20x is a darker sounding and more compressed sounding cartridge than the XX2. Both are great cartridges for the price, but the XX2 is definitely in another class. It is very revealing and dynamic, startlingly so, but it also has a bit of warmth which makes it easy to listen to. The value proposition is a personal one. No one can say for anyone else if something "is worth it" or not. That's a personal question and relates to an individual's finances, desires, and priorities.
    -Bill
     
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  5. Johnny Vinyl

    Johnny Vinyl Vinylholic Thread Starter

    Thanks Bill! The highlighted portion is critical to me as I'm extremely sensitive to high frequency variations and when they go beyond my limit. I don't want to give up mid-range warmth for more detail. It appears, from your analysis, I can get the sound I'm after with the XX2.
     
  6. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    You’ve probably written about this before, but do you prefer the Ortofon Cadenza Blue to the ART9?
     
  7. adog

    adog Well-Known Member

    Location:
    ohio
    It’s a worthy upgrade. Big step up.
     
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  8. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Ortofon sounds more neutral and dynamic and overall better. ART9 has deeper and more defined bass response. When the Cadenza blue is ready for pasture a new ART9 will be on order ASAP.
     
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  9. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    The DV XX2 MK2 is a vastly different cartridge from the X2L. In the three very serious systems in which I’ve personally used the XX2 MK 2, each with a superb phono preamp (Lehmann Silver Cube, Luxman EQ-500, Avid Pellere, the latter two are part of friends’ systems, the Silver Cube is mine), the cartridge takes on 100% of the character of whatever is playing. To my ears, the cartridge provides only the sound of the recording, not its own sound. The better the phono preamp, the more obvious that becomes.

    Acoustic instrument timbres are completely accurate. The cartridge is just good enough to help me hear the difference between Ray Brown’s bass and Leroy Vinnegar’s bass, which IMO is quite an accomplishment. All I hear with the DV XX2 MK 2 is music. If Gene Ammons is playing, all of his dynamics are front & center - no restraints or constrictions. Gene Harris’ incredible energy and dynamics and lighting fast right hand are always front & center, just as they were recorded. Listening to vocals of singers I’ve heard live is equally rewarding, and the cartridge puts me that much closer to the session or the live set. It’s a great cartridge.

    I also recently tried the DV XX2 MK2 with a Parks Audio Puffin. It was delightful, mainly because the Puffin itself is such a massive home run for Shannon Parks (which is a whole other home audio success story). I’ve tried the cartridge with an iPhono2 which was a lot of fun. I’ve tried the cartridge with a Pro-ject Phonobox RS, Lehmann Black Cube SEII and a Simaudio Moon 310LP. As good as each phono preamp is, the Moon 310LP is the one that has made the best match for my XX2 MK2 mounted on my LP12/Akito - it’s a fascinatingly good combination. Large classical ensembles in symphonic recordings, opera, jazz combos, big bands, rock and you-name-it. As with other cartridges in the higher tiers, this one is all about music.
     
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  10. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken!

    Location:
    U.S.
    A lot of what you say is how I heard the XX3MkII when I spent a little time listening to it when my dealer had an open house. It was on a Clearaudio Performance DC with a Tracer tonearm. I can't remember the phonostage but I think it was the Octave solidstate one. That got me thinking about it or the Te Kaitora Rua as a replacement for my aging Clearaudio Concerto V2 (Stradivari V2 was also on short list). When my dealer came up with a secondhand XV-1s I jumped at the chance to audition it. It wasn't at home on my TT for but a few days before I realized I had to have it, and now I do. I love the Dynavector. What a fantastic cartridge. I mostly listen to acoustic classical and jazz. It's perfect for that but on the occasion I bring out some classical rock, it does that in spades too.
     
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  11. danomar

    danomar My spoon is too big.

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Which turntable/arm do you plan to mount it on? That culd make a difference.

    The XX2 MkII is, in my experience, a very forgiving cartridge. It sounds good with a range of SUTs and preamps. Although it is classified as low compliance, it tracks very well. It works well on a wide range of tonearms, sounding better with better tonearms.

    The XX2MkII is very neutral: It seems to reproduce what is in the groove with few exaggerations. I like clarity, and that is what impresses me most about the XX2. Soundstage and subtle dynamics of acoustic instruments come through more clearly with the XX2 than most other cartirdges else I have heard.

    Some prefer the sound of an aluminum cantilever, but I learned long ago that solid cantilevers are for me. The boron cantilever on the XX2 permits quick, clear transient responses that the stylus is capable to track. Right now, I am listening to a vintage John Patton LP (Blue Note) and can hear Gran Green's guitar as if it were right in front of me, with differences in his fingering and a slight echo from the amp easily distinguishable.

    There is a plateau of performance: Up to approximately USD $ 1200, there are some truly excellent LOMCs available that sound much better than one might expect. To get to the next level, one needs to spend approximately twice as much on the cartridge and turntable. It is the same with all audiophile equipment. The trick is to stop at a point where one feels comfortable.

    If you have some very nice equipment that permits the amount of fine-tuning for high-end vinyl sound reproduction, then get an XX2 MkII. You might not hear the difference between the DV20x2L and the XX2 if your turntable, phono section, and other components do not complement it.
     
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  12. Johnny Vinyl

    Johnny Vinyl Vinylholic Thread Starter

    It's listed on my profile.
     
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  13. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    I recently upgraded from a 20X2L to an XX2 MKII. Got a terrific deal on it by buying it from an Italian shop that used it as a demo for about 40h. Pics taken from my cheap USB microscope showed a pristine-looking diamond so I tend to believe them. Instead of spending the 2200$ plus tax (almost 2500$) a new one sold in Canada would cost, this one cost me about 1050$.

    Why am I mentioning this? Because you should keep your options open. Buying new is all fine and good but in the past 3 years or so, I've calculated that I've saved about 6800$ CDN (pre-tax!) on gear purchased used.

    IMHO, it's certainly worth considering as the savings would be worth it for such a purchase. There's one right now on Audiogon for $1100, so about 1475$. Granted, it's not as good a deal as what I got but that's still about 700$ you'd save, plus whatever taxes would be tacked onto that. Something to think about, at least.

    Dynavector DV-XX2 mkII | Cartridges | Lambertville, Michigan 48144 | Audiogon

    Was the upgrade worth it? It's subjective. It certainly improves on everything but it's more subtle. For instance, it's not as if the 20X2L was bass-shy at all but the XX2 MKII provides more detail and nuances to those frequencies, such as string definition when a note is plucked, stuff like that. There's slightly more depth but it's the details that are revealed. Same with the other frequencies. Basically, everything the 20X2L did, the XX2 MKII does it better and then some.

    It's not as big of a jump as when I bought the 20X2L which, IMHO, is the very best price/performance ratio in the lineup. I'd say it's about 15% better, if I had to put some arbitrary number to its performance. For the price I paid, I'm quite happy. I needed a new cart anyway and I ended up paying about the same price as a new 20X2L. Would I have been thrilled with its performance at the 2200$ CDN retail price? Not exactly as I would've wanted more. I will admit to my inexperience with carts in that I haven't used many in my home system so I'm unsure about the leap in performance I should be expecting as I go up the line but the 20X2L was revolutionary whereas the XX2 MKII is more of an evolutionary step.

    Don't forget that you can trade in your 20X2L for a 20% discount on other Dynavector carts with some dealers. If you decide to stick with the 20X2L, you can ship it to Dynavector who will rebuild it for 20% off the price of a brand new one. They call that the Exchange Service. Only thing I've read is the turnaround times can be long.

    Warranty Service / Exchange Service | Dynavector International Site

    Found this link to give you an example. This Australian shop states the turnaround time can take about 5 weeks for a rebuild. The good news is if their info is accurate, the rebuild for a XX2 MKII is actually 35% off the price of a new one! That's certainly interesting to me.

    Can I trade in my old Dynavector cartridge and what’s the discount? – JD Audio

    Another option would be to ship your 20X2L to SoundSmith to have it rebuilt. Their prices are cheaper and their styli do sport theoretically better material. For instance, the 20X2L features an aluminum cantilever but SS offers boron and other materials as well, IIRC. My father-in-law used their services and turnaround time was a few weeks. It's meticulous work so I understand how they can't be rushed. Reviews are over-the-top positive for their services but I personally doubt their work can sound as good (or better, as some claim) as what Dynavector cooked up their own selves. It also might explain why there are so many barely used SS carts available for purchase.

    Just throwing info your way. Hopefully, it helps somewhat. I do have a 20X2L with only 40h of use I'm mulling over possibly selling for 800$ which is about 30% off the post-tax price. Unsure if I'll do it.
     
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  14. Johnny Vinyl

    Johnny Vinyl Vinylholic Thread Starter

    Thanks very much for your detailed reply. It'll certainly go a long way to assist me for when I make up my mind as to the cartridge I decide on.

    There is no question that buying new will cost more and I appreciate that some people, yourself included, feel the rather large difference in upgrade cost from the 20x2L to the XX2 isn't quite worth the price/performance ratio. I get that completely. And while I might still hold a slight preference to new I remain open-minded and have been checking used cartridges as well. If I decide that the XX2 might be little much I'm leaning toward the Benz Micro Glider.
     
  15. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Why, though? Just curious. What advantage do you have in buying new?

    Why that specific one?
     
  16. Johnny Vinyl

    Johnny Vinyl Vinylholic Thread Starter

    Why new? - Although I have had many wonderful used transactions I've also been burned. So, if I'm going to spend that kind of cash a new purchase will provide me with a full warranty, and that's comforting for me.

    Why that specific one? - I've never owned one and would like to try it. The reviews and opinions tell me it's a cartridge I might really enjoy. It's how I discovered the 20x2L....by trying it.
     
  17. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Warranties for carts might as well be nonexistent. The nature of styli and cantilevers lends them to be quite fragile. As a result, it can be difficult to have one repaired or replaced. Dynavector's own warranty policies state the warranty is void if the damage is due to misuse, accident, negligence, or modifications of any kind.

    You'd also be dealing with the distributor and they specifically state it's by region so if you bought it from, say, Electronic Depot in Niagara Falls, you'd be charged a service fee to have it inspected and serviced/repaired/replaced.

    Warranty Service / Exchange Service | Dynavector International Site

    As for used Those transactions are covered via PayPal... for 3 months! If you bought an XX2 MKII and either got a defective one or 20X2L instead of what you paid for, you open a dispute, and send it back for a full refund. So there's no actual risk.
     
  18. Johnny Vinyl

    Johnny Vinyl Vinylholic Thread Starter

    Thanks for your input.
     
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  19. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken!

    Location:
    U.S.
    When it comes to phono cartridges I also prefer new. Years ago when I had a DV 20x2H I had two that developed problems after a few months. The Dynavector distributor in the U.S. is here in ST. Louis and getting them replaced under warranty was no hassle. Ditto for Clearaudio and Musical Surroundings. After owning a Talisman V2 for a while I complained that it was just too sibilant. After discovering the included frequency graph showed a 5db peak at 15K they replaced it. Actually they gave me dealer credit to upgrade to the Concerto v2 for a nominal cost. I am all about buying used, but when it comes to phono cartridges I prefer new.

    With that said, I lucked into a used DV DRT XV-1s. It's $5650 new but my dealer took one in on trade with just a couple hundred hours on it when the customer upgraded to a Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement. The dealer sold me the customers trade in XV-1s for $2500. It's a fantastic deal, but they will also support it for the balance of the warranty. I also think they were doing me a favor extending that price (they made nothing on it) since I have given a lot of business ($40K or so). While I have in the past bought used audio gear (e.g. my Naim 282/HC/250) on A'gon I don't think I would personally buy a used phono cartridge. Maybe I don't have a great reason not to, but that's how I stand. For the most part I really prefer buying used/demo gear directly from my dealer. I might pay more but I get it back in great support, and I'm supporting a locally owned business to boot.
     
  20. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Most people have not given 40K to a dealer who'd provide favors. The option of having a dealer-supported customer-returned or demo cart isn't available in most cases either.
     
  21. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken!

    Location:
    U.S.
    The great price may have been extended me due to customer loyalty. They provide the great support to their customers in general. It's how they roll. It's not the only demo/used cartridge they had available.

    I think if more people did a better job supporting local business they might be surprised what benefits that can provide.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
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  22. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    My point is that option isn't available to most due to dealers not being so willing to go out of their way for just anyone, especially those who have not dropped 40K onto their lap. Carts of that caliber aren't usually returned and available for purchase at a great discount either.

    Bottom line ; you were lucky. Enjoy it. But realize promoting this idea as if it were commonplace and accessible to most is unrealistic at best.
     
  23. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken!

    Location:
    U.S.
    Relax. I never said it's commonplace. It does happen, however, maybe more than you think.
     
  24. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Completely relaxed, thanks. :)

    It seemed (to me, anyway) presented as though that was a common occurrence. I wish it were the case but... I can't complain ; got a great deal on my XX2 MKII in a similar fashion but I'm aware I was abnormally lucky that time.
     
  25. thegage

    thegage Forum Currency Nerd

    Not that the OP asked, but I'll offer this: in various configurations I went up the Dynavector ladder, from 10x5, to 20X2, to XX2 MKII. The XX2 is a significant step up, and for those who like the Dynavector house sound worth the cost. Before the Dynavectors I had a couple of Benz SLs, and since the XX2 I've had Soundsmith MIMC Star, VAS Nova, VAS Nova HW (elliptical stylus), and now the Hana ML, a recent upgrade of their well-regarded SL. Audio memory is short, but I'll hazard that out of the box cold, the Hana beat them all, including the XX2, and only has gotten better as it breaks in. The Hana is dynamic, open, smooth, fantastic at reproducing and despite having a microline stylus it was one of the least fussy cartridges to set up I've had in a long while. No sibilance at all from the get-go. I got mine from Upscale where I'm a regular customer, so I got a discount, but even at list price I'd say it more than gives the XX2 a run for its money. Hana also gives a two-year warranty for defects.

    John K.
     
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