Is the DR database really accurate for vinyl?

Fair enough and I agree with you completely on that point but we aren't talking about CD vs CD here though.

 

Thank you for posting this. Every time I see people discussing waveforms from needle drops I want to blow my brains out. If you think you can scientifically prove that one format is superior than the other, then you should probably find a new hobby. The only tool you need when comparing digital to analog is your ears. If you're into the science side, spend some time tweaking your setup (swap out caps, transformers, tubes, etc) instead of sitting in front of a computer monitor comparing waveforms.

 

Thanks for sharing, very interesting. What's fascinating is that the DR algorithm gives such radically different results for signals that look so very similar when zoomed in.

 

No. It's because of the "characteristic flat top" of the CD waveform, which people refer to as "brickwalling", "typical of something that has been through a digital limiter to control peaks". All quotes from Ian, taken from the video. You can love the sound of this particular mastering all you want, but don't be delusional about the limiting applied.

So, sure, he's a real cheerleader for ending the loudness war... except when brickwalling CDs like the one shown in his video.

 

Sorry for straying off topic, just wanted to be clear.

 

Just because you are digitally limiting peaks it doesn't automatically mean you are brickwalling it. It also doesn't automatically mean it's not going to sound as good. That is the whole point of this video. Just because the waveform and DR ratings look better doesn't mean it's going to sound better.

 

I was surprised when he finally played the music and it was mellow. That mastering looked like hard rock mastering.

 

No worries I just wasn't clear on what you were saying that's all.

 

Allrightythen. Is this what you call "cheerleading to end the loudness war"? Cheer on, brother!

 

I'm not sure I said this particular video was doing that. As a matter of fact, I know I didn't.
Here is a video that does though

 

In the Audio Hardware section, the needledroppers do one better which is to post samples. That way we can all use our ears.

Again, the DR tool is just that...a tool. When I upload my own numbers on the DRD site, sometimes I'll post what I think from the SQ as well, so that way the numbers aren't the only factor to consider. Especially if the numbers don't match to what I'm actually hearing.

 

Read post 11.

 

For me Hi Resolution is a more realistic presentation of harmonics, space around the instruments, reverb, decay and room sound.

All mastering things being equal, vinyl from a cd quality source is worse than the cd.

All mastering things being equal, vinyl from an analog source is much better than the cd.

All mastering things being equal, vinyl from 24/96 source is better than the cd.

I know this because I have several titles with exact masterings on both CD and vinyl.

 

Yes, that is the real point here, which this video has made clearer than ever. I like looking at waveforms too but my ears are always the final arbiter. You can't IMO make an informed decision without hearing the thing first.

I still prefer lots of stuff on vinyl (definitely not the vinyl used in that clip, I think it sounds like crap) - if that's coloration or distortion, whatever - my ears enjoy the vinyl more in some cases and that's how I roll, simple as that.

 

I wish vinyl LP's had a disclaimer on anything redbook CD sourced -- would make things a lot easier, that's for sure.

Digitally sourced could still mean a 24/44.1k source or a 24/96 source. Even a 16/44.1k source that wasn't EQ'd for redbook so again a lot of factors at play. It's one thing when I get a mediocre sounding LP for a few bucks, but when it's $20+ and it sounds like **** then that's a real bummer.

 

I mean 24/96 or better.

 

Pardon my ignorance, but does this not presume that the CD in question is necessarily exactly as dynamic as the master? In other words, that it is a straight, essentially un-mastered copy of the master? Is it not possible that the process of mastering may result in a CD with less dynamic range than the master?

 

Considering that the person who mastered it is the one who did the video no. He says in the video that the CD and vinyl got the same master.

 

Just realized something btw -- the CD is DR8 for this YT video, and the vinyl is DR12. DR8 is actually pretty good for a modern CD and that in itself could actually make a big difference in SQ.

If all my modern CD's were DR8 I don't know if I'd have ever gotten back into vinyl to begin with -- most of the modern CD's I have fall more into DR5 or DR6 at best.

 

One thing to consider is the format of the material compared. Are both files in the video lossless? I recall the TT DR Offline Meter app working fine with lossless (WAV) & CBR compressed (MP3) audio, but not being able to correctly handle VBR compressed (MP3) material, i.e. bumping DR values for it +3...4dB compared to its lossless source. See 2 DRDB entries for the same album I took with TT DR Offline Meter few years ago in both lossy VBR & lossless formats for yourself.

 

What is interesting, he says the vinyl measures DR12, yet he says the CD sounds more dynamic. A lot of questions. I assume he is being honest about the mastering and all.

 

Plus how he did his needledrop is even more critical. You could have three needledroppers with the same LP and their results would all be different. I changed out just my ADC back in early 2012 and if I used the same exact record and compared it with a drop done pre-ADC change, those two drops sound different.

Needledropping is, to me, almost an art in how you have to get all the parts working in symmetry. If I had the time I'd redo ALL my drops from 2011 as I hadn't quite nailed down my setup back then.

 

What would he have to gain be being dishonest about the mastering?

 

A different ADC won't change the DR by 4db. It might sound different but it won't make that drastic of a difference in the rating.

 

Also keep in mind, CDs are capable of being more dynamic than vinyl.