I've been happily cleaning my records using the same brand of cleaner for the last 2 years with fantastic results. I needed to buy more last week and whilst there I read some of the customer reviews and noticed a few that claimed the product contains alcohol and can therefore "strip away the protective layer of the record" or words to that affect. Now here's the thing. I didn't know alcohol could damage vinyl. But also, this product is endorsed by loads of big names, the biggest one being Abbey Road studios. They even sell it in the Abbey Road shop. Obviously I assumed the product was top quality. I've been in touch with the manufacturer who of course claimed the product is completely safe. They also confirmed it contains 7-9% isopropanol. Since reading these reviews I've done some digging, it seems many believe alcohol to be safe, whereas others claim otherwise. But I've yet to see any actual proof anywhere that it definitely does damage vinyl. You would think after all these years there'd be a definitive answer on this? In the meantime I've been using a 2 stage, alcohol free cleaner and it's absolutely rubbish. Leaves fibers behind in the grooves and creates more noise. I want to go back to my trusty cleaner but I'll be honest I've loads of highly valuable records in my collection and I'm kinda paranoid any alcohol residue left over will slowly degrade the vinyl over the years. Am I worrying over nothing?
I've used an alcohol/H2O mix for decades. I use 91 or 99% alcohol in an approximate 75/25 ratio. Used to use a Parastat brush but now mostly use the AT6012 pad (but not their liquid except rare occasions). If the alcohol has stripped the record's precious bodily fluids (nod to Dr. Strangelove) away, I'm unaware. Some of my albums go back to the late 50's. Now, alcohol is NOT good for shellac records.
I use a homemade formula that’s much the same ratio and I feel that its one of the more gentle methods of cleaning records, that’s pretty well diluted alcohol.
I do not believe any record has a protective coating. Any coating would alter the audio response IMO.
I truly hope that my records don’t have any protective layer and consist just of vinyl! There are some threads that discuss IPA and so far there is no evidence that it could harm vinyl. And if you use and rinse with distilled water you should not get any residue either. I am actually using 99.9% pure IPA for some old records that have greasy stuff on them and it works like a charm and these are some of my best sounding records. Of course you only need to do this once (or twice) and after using IPA conventional brushing (many ways of doing this) will keep the records clean. I like IPA because it evaporates quickly and completely. One only needs to be careful as IPA in high concentrations is highly flammable, so don’t use candle lighting!
Technically yes. If you were to submerge your record into a batch of alcohol and leave it there for an extended period, it would dissolve and/or degrade the vinyl. from a practical standpoint, isopropyl in a cleaning solution and in contact with vinyl for a couple minutes isn’t going to hurt anything.
Sure, if you consider the fact it can be found on the internet as "proof," it's all over the place, it damages LPs. But then again there is just as much "proof" that it doesn't. You're still left to decide who you believe if you don't know for sure from experience.... Me? I've used it in various mixes for many, many years and my vinyl is undamaged. So in my case experience was all the teacher or information I need, and able to read all the marketing or other claims amused. (because that's what they are - to sell something, it helps if there is something "wrong" with what you're doing now.... ). Oh, and no, I don't submerge my LP's in straight 91% Iso for extended periods either.
It’s not a protective layer as such, but I worry that certain cleaning methods would make the plastic more brittle. Especially when working with already old records.
I'll ask this? How can this so called alcohol free cleaner which is rubbish you claim, leave "Fibers behind"? Wouldn't there be some form of logic that Fibers as you call them are being left behind by a cleaning tool you are using?
It's not a matter of if it does, it's question of how much. This is because alcohol is has benefits too. So you're making a trade. I buy mostly new vinyl, so I've switched to L'Art du Son which doesn't have alcohol in it because I don't think I need to make that trade. That being said I've used alcohol based DIY solutions for years. I'll still use it if I have an extremely dirty record. The facts are that alcohol does remove elastomers. A lot? Not likely. I'll also state that for extremely noisy vinyl, I break out an enzyme cleaner that I allow to soak before I remove it. I don't think there is a single cleaner that does everything. So I use cleaners that I tend to think will be most beneficial, and if nothing works, I'll break out the alcohol based ones.
This book Vinyl Record Manual Cleaning Process (thevinylpress.com) in Chapter X does an analysis of the material compatibility of vinyl records with a number of different chemicals including alcohol. The alcohol analysis is done using an established chemical methodology - specifically Hansen Solubility Parameters - its a 'deep' read, but the conclusion is as follows: "X.5.f For a quick summary, use of ethanol and IPA at 20% or less are unlikely to cause any material compatibility issues used at any temperature that will not damage/wrap the record, flammability and explosion hazard notwithstanding. At higher concentrations, there is uncertainty and results will be dependent on the specific record composition; application temperature; polymer weight to solvent volume and the exposure time. However, high concentrations at higher temperatures, fire and explosion risk should preclude use. Is someone using 70% to 100% alcohol to wipe a record for a few minutes using just a few milliliters going to cause harm? It is very unlikely."
Nope. People have chunks of vinyl records that have been submerged for years, vinyl isn't soluble in alcohol.
I have a friend who has been using isapropyl alcohol on a discwasher pad for 20 years and his records play just fine.
Dissolving the vinyl is the last step in the material degradation process. Solvent dissolution of polymers follow a well documented path. The paper "A review of polymer dissolution, Beth A. Miller-Chou, Jack L. Koenig, Prog. Polym. Sci. 28 (2003) 1223–1270 states: “First, the solvent begins its aggression by pushing the swollen polymer substance into the solvent, and, as time progresses, a more dilute upper layer is pushed in the direction of the solvent stream. Further penetration of the solvent into the solid polymer increases the swollen surface layer until, at the end of the swelling time, a quasistationary state is reached where the transport of the macromolecules from the surface into the solution prevents a further increase of the layer.”. So, for a polymer (i.e. the record), evidence of swell and maybe weight gain are the first (and maybe only) evidence of attack; and for a record, the most sensitive part would be the side wall grooves. If they degrade - good bye high frequency music.
I might call BS on that claim-statement, to just prove some silly point of yours. It might not dissolve vinyl records, but it will damage the composition make-up. Short term, and low concentrations and by actual lab testing, not by some guy living in momma's basement, seem to show no considerable noteworthy damage to records. Don't be of the belief that if a little is good, then go to extreme excesses to believe a whole lot more is even better yet. What is Alcohol and the various types of? Most are solvents. Correct? Here ya go! "Get your Brighto, makes old Bodies new!" LOL
His statement and the statement of others that the vinyl will not dissolve in alcohol is 'technically' correct. The risk is with 'some' compositions (of which we do not have all the details) that may be sensitive to swell; but this would occur as I said above at the thinnest part and only after extended exposure; and detecting the attack by standard weight analysis could prove very difficult because the weight gain could be so small. And, yes all alcohols are solvents, but chemically so is water.
Well you'd think that after a few years, we'd see some transport of macromolecules from the surface into the solution. And yet it is reported that the test sample maintains all its original properties.
An interesting thread... Test to Determine Isopropyl Alcohol Attack on LP Vinyl The following is a test to determine the effect of isopropyl alcohol on old LP vinyl. Sample: Early 1970s? Cream - Wheels Of Fire Sample size: 7 sq in. with duplicate. Total is 14 sq in. Sample Prep: Wash with dishwashing detergent, rinse, dry with compressed air. Procedure: Weigh sample. Place in solution for 6 days at room temp. Dry with compressed air and re-weigh. Duplicate Results Given Below 100% DI water 0.128% and 0.146% weight GAIN 5% isopropanol 0.143% and 0.136% weight GAIN 10% isopropanol 0.129% and 0.123% weight GAIN 50% isopropanol 0.0962% and 0.108% weight GAIN 100% isopropanol 0.0917% and 0.136% weight LOSS Observations: No visual difference between samples (vinyl and solutions). No apparent breakdown of the PVC. When quickly drawn across white paper, no black marks were seen. No difference seen when the PVC was scratched and scraped with a knife. No difference in sample flexibility. I’ve read about concerns of plasticizer leech-out on LPs with alcohol. Clearly the weight loss at 100% isopropanol is a concern* but occasional cleaning with a 5-10% isopropanol solution is probably very safe for LP vinyl. "I just ran a UV spectrophotometer scan (800-200 nm) on the 100 and 50% IPA solutions. The scan was identical to fresh controls, no difference. If there is any plasticizers leeched out, it's super low and below detection limits." *Likely the 100% alcohol extracted water from the vinyl. If submerging the vinyl in solutions containing water causes a weight GAIN, it stands to reason that submerging the vinyl in 100% alcohol would cause a weight loss because alcohol is infinitely hygroscopic (loves water).
Totally safe to use deluted iso alcohol. Vinyl records are mostly PVC with an acetate softener. Wash away. Other alcohols in sufficient concentrations and contact times could damage them but your 10% is totally harmless. I wouldn’t soak my records in straight iso for days at a time since there are different additives for different formulations of vinyl and colors. Prolonged exposure might might react with those if you have a sufficient concentration but I doubt it. No way a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water do anything to PVC over the span of a couple of minutes. Some people in this hobby are straight up nuts and worry about things that are completely inconsequential and glint factoids from Google that they believe support their position.
