Is there really a difference between a monitor and a loudspeaker?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Madness, Dec 14, 2018.

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  1. Madness

    Madness "Hate is much too great a burden to bear." Thread Starter

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Serious question. I haven't found a definitive answer.

    Do I want a studio monitor, or a stereo loudspeaker? What's the difference between the two (is there a difference?)?
     
    Bingo Bongo likes this.
  2. wgb113

    wgb113 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chester County, PA
    Studio monitors are tools used during the process of making an album.

    They strive to be as accurate and neutral as possible.

    Some people in this hobby don't care for that sort of sound.

    Some studios use "HiFi" speakers along with studio monitors to get an idea of how it might sound in a home.

    Listen to as many different speakers as you can, at home if you can.

    Pick the one you like.
     
  3. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"

    Studio monitors typically have a broad flat mid range and in fact that is ALL some monitors have to offer (Yamaha NS10m---most famous monitor EVER).
    Take the Yamaha for instance.
    The top end is harsh as can be.
    The bass is nonexistent (some engineers put their finger on the woofer to "guess" if there is bass coming out of the thing!).
    So engineers have "learned" what the NS10m is telling them even though they can't hear anything coming off it except for the mid range---which is even a bit exaggerated.
    These monitors are used to go look for mistakes that happened during tracking---a preliminary time when the producer is playing down tracks and hasn't mixed them together yet.
    For putting everything together into a finished production an engineer may well have a second and third pair of monitors to see what the "big picture" sounds like.
    These may be closer to home audiophile speakers and have a much broader response---larger JBL control monitors that you see on these forums for instance.
    SOME of these are OK for home use and may even be delightful.
    Again however---these are "tools."
    An engineer doesn't give a rat's patootey how "good" they sound.
    He only wants to hear how to make a record sound great with good tracks well assembled.
    If his ears bleed---well that's too bad.
    As a buddy of mine who did Crosby Stills and Nash says: "I just want to do a job and get PAID."
    Lots of deaf engineers these days from all those harsh "working monitors."
    On the other hand Genelec has been making "gentle" monitors that cost a lot---for years.
    These monitors work as monitors but Genelecs are softer on those frequencies that the engineer doesn't need to hear---like extreme treble.
    And Genelecs have good clear bass.
    In general I wouldn't go for most monitors except perhaps the BBC designed monitors like Spendor and Harbeth make.
    The BBC monitor design always gives a big picture and is balanced, unlike what American engineers use.
    So these British monitors are pretty swell in the typical home setup.
    But after all---what matters is what YOU want a speaker to do.
    I am always listening to mixes trying to figure out how they recorded the mix, so I PREFER British monitors for home use and get great results adding subs to mine and running them as "high end."
    Think of "monitor" as a name for something designed for a specific job---maybe too specialized for home use---like it is an "off road" vehicle.
    And perhaps YOU wanted something you could drive on the highway, ha ha.
    Monitors are mostly sized for a certain space and location in the control room---so you need to read up on what room they need.
    For home use most folks generally just buy something which sounds "nice" and let it go at that.
    My two cents.
     
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  4. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    Nice synopsis.
    -Bill
     
  5. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    All monitors are loudspeakers, but not all loudspeakers are monitors. Some use the term loudspeakers to refer to high efficiency speakers, such as PA speakers - "The announcer called the game over the loudspeaker system".
    Monitoring is an application of loudspeakers and although anything could be used in theory, in practice there are designs specifically for this purpose that are most commonly employed.
    A Hi-Fi speaker design, if it is floorstanding or a generally larger size box than average and capable of producing high sound levels, is also commonly called a loudspeaker by many. Not so much bookshelf designs.

    You can certainly use speakers designed and marketed as studio monitors for home use. Better ones sound great, but are very revealing, and may need some help from a sub or two for the bottom octaves. I have done this myself, but I usually prefer the flexibility of selecting a speaker and an amplifier to buying a pair of active monitors. There are all quality and price levels in speakers and monitors, so just because something is marketed as a monitor doesn't mean that it sounds good.
    -Bill
     
  6. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    This thread has some good info from Barry Diament and Steve Hoffmann: Audiophile Speaker vs. Studio Monitor
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
    Stone Turntable, Dave, E.Baba and 2 others like this.
  7. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    A true monitor speaker is made for close up listening (near field). It is designed to be highly accurate, and revealing. It's designed as a reference to judge recording studio work, and for mixes which translate to average systems. It is designed as a working tool. Accurate and revealing to the point of forensic. Not as much for listening pleasure. Makes bad recordings sound bad, mediocre recordings sound mediocre, good sound good, great sound great. Can be a bit brutal.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  8. bhazen

    bhazen ANNOYING BEATLES FAN

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    Most studio monitors, I wouldn't want anywhere near my home. But, there ARE a few that sound FANTASTIC in that role: Tannoys with a 10" or 12" Gold speaker (and hopefully, the Mastering Lab crossover), and the new Neumann studio monitors (KH 310, 410). I could listen to those forever! Not forgetting anything with Altec 604s in (good luck finding those)!
     
    The FRiNgE likes this.
  9. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    OP, what is the motive behind your question?

    Don't make the pursuit of great reproduced sound in your home unnecessarily difficult. All sorts of terminology or phrases are used to describe gear or sound quality. "Studio monitors" are often active, dynamic loudspeakers designed to be used in the near field.

    Those looking for an entry level loudspeaker have so many dozens of options that paralysis is understandable. Find a proven manufacturer that you identify with. A big name such as Focal. Or perhaps a designer such as Andrew Jones at Elac. Read some reviews. Find a good price. Go for it. Enjoy. And learn.
     
    pscreed likes this.
  10. Of course there is. Everyone knows a monitor is a lizard. :D
     
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  11. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    A monitor is a tool of the trade! A monitor can be any speaker, hifi or not, for instance a stage monitor simply helps the performers hear each other, but not necessarily in high fidelity. In the studio, the monitor lets the engineer know what's going on in the console. The studio monitor should be one of two things, 1) as accurate as possible and free of coloration, 2) a near flat monitor familiar to the engineer, that sounds, "normal". For example, my home studio monitors are sort of like the infamous Yamaha NS-10, no bass. Man, you have to "force" these to produce "high fidelity" (certainly they can and do) a very fussy, clinical sounding monitor. By contrast, my vintage Sennheiser HD420-SL headphones sound generically good (warm) with almost all recordings.. great recordings have not any "wow" factor, but very forgiving of low-fi recordings.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
  12. Linto

    Linto Mayor of Simpleton

    As an LS5/9 user I wouldn't use any other box speaker, monitors to me are just correct, other
    "loudspeakers" are fun but not strictly accurate.
     
  13. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    No. In fact, some speakers that became classic widely used studio monitors -- like the Yamaha NS10 -- were originally designed has home hifi products; and other speakers that were originally designed as professional monitors -- like the Rogers LS2/5a -- became home audio classics.

    Speakers designed for studio use tend to have very different cosmetics -- there's not the concern for home decor appeal so there's not wood or veneers etc. They may have features that are valuable in pro use and less so in home use -- like if they're large, maybe carrying handles. And many, even most these days, studio monitors are active (increasingly you have active home audio speakers today too), which means not only that you're also buying amplification but there may be other features -- tweeter tilt controls, balanced vs. single ended inputs, etc -- that are different. But a speaker is a speaker.

    Users are often looking for different things out of the speakers they might choose for home audio vs. tracking monitoring vs. mastering monitoring etc., so the person choosing a speaker to work with their AV receiver that sounds "good" with movies and with pop music streamed from Spotify and that fits into the look of their living room or den, might make a different choice than the engineer working in a highly damped control room, doing near field listening to speakers 4 feet in front of him on the top of the console where the primary consideration is going to be the ability to make a mix that "translates" -- ie, sounds right not only on the mix speakers and mix environment. But, a two way speaker in a small box with a 5" woofer and a 1" tweeter is a two-way speaker in a small box with a 5" woofer and a 1" tweeter.
     
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  14. Sterling1

    Sterling1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    About 45 years ago I heard a pair of JBL L100 Century's. As I understand it, this speaker was marketed as a home version of the JBL 4310 Studio Monitor. I did not know about the marketing strategy at that time but I did know I liked the sound I heard from the L100's, effortless volume, without sounding loud or strained, and jewel like detail. I could not afford a pair then and in fact could not afford a pair until the JBL L100t3's were being marketed, some 14 years later after first hearing the L100 Century's. Now, while today I understand the appeal of the word monitor, used to persuade folks that they can enjoy a particular speaker which is favored by music professionals, the speaker's usage by professional music makers, real or fantasied, is not what drives me to buy, instead, it's the sound, period. 45 years ago I fell in love with a sound that I'm still in love with today; and, I did not and do not need knowledge of what others think when after all it's my ears which I'm trying to please. At any rate, too much gobbledygook on a decision which can be answered by just listening, not to words but music.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
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  15. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    You mean the Altec Lansing 604 with the Mastering Lab crossover. The Tannoy Gold and HPD are fine with their stock crossovers in good order.
     
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  16. Rick Bartlett

    Rick Bartlett Forum Resident

    When I was young and making my first CD, having no idea about recording at all, I used a pair of
    Hi-Fi speakers to mix the album, and I thought it sounded wonderful.
    Taking a test copy and playing it on another system it sounded bloody awful!
    I tried on various systems and they all provided a different and horrible results.
    Either vocals were too loud or way too soft, the bottom end was boomy as all F^ck!!!
    Guitars got lost in the mix.... just a trainwreck.
    This is why you need good monitor speakers for recording, it's the best way to balance your
    mix that will hopefully sound great on every system outside of the monitors that it is played on.
    Good learning lesson doing it the hard way.
     
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  17. 911s55

    911s55 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wa state
    JBL used Studio Monitor and Control Monitor nomenclature.

    Consumer audio = home use.

    Categories suggested by the manufacturers and retailers, I use both for personal listening, not mixing etc.
     
  18. bhazen

    bhazen ANNOYING BEATLES FAN

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    Er, no, I do mean the Tannoy Gold with Mastering Lab mods; a friend of mine's studio has them, and they are wonderful, an improvement on the stock crossover. My subjective opinion only, there's nothing wrong with the stock Tannoy ... He's using Neumann 3-way actives now, and I have right of first refusal if he ever decides to sell the Tannoys. :) (The Neumanns are amazing in their own way too.)

    I've heard the "domestic" Tannoy Eatons recently, those sound wonderful, too.

    I don't know if I've heard the Altecs modded by ML ... I bet they sound amazing ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
  19. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Tannoys I love. Didn't know there was a Mastering Lab crossover for them. Thanks for that history.
     
  20. Stone Turntable

    Stone Turntable Independent Head

    Location:
    New Mexico USA
    So what I'm getting is that a narrowly utilitarian, non-euphonious monitor is for the ears what a long series of short one-sentence paragraphs stacked vertically without line breaks is typographically for the eyes.
     
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