Is this the new way of shill bidding on eBay?

Discussion in 'Third Party Sales & Auctions' started by David R. Modny, Nov 5, 2007.

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  1. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    Yeah ebay and their morals. I'll tell you something really funny. They cracked down on sellers (for a minute or two) for over-charging on shipping/handling charges...right? Well, they offered some disc of software not long ago and said it was free. You know those cardboard jackets (not even the free AOL clear DVD cases) around a CD-Rom. But this free disc had a $4.99 handling charge you had to pay. We laughed so hard about that in this online sales forum I belonged to. It was quite a riot.

    Ebay telling people how not to over charge shipping, and then charging $4.99 handling charge for a CD-Rom. Is that too funny?

    They will never control my record sales, what I charge, how I handle my items or anything.
     
  2. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    But all this said, there are deals to be had on ebay. And if ever someone wins an auction and it feels funny at the end, like there were shills involved, and the price went beyond where it really should have, I would bolt on the item. Tell the seller that this feels like I got f'ed and didn't even enjoy it.

    I did this to a seller once and did not even get Neg feedback. They knew I knew the score.
     
  3. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter

    In all fairness though Jeff, I don't really think this is a case of Ebay's morals. More so, how will the participants choose to play in a fair market.

    I'm a seller too - since 1998 on Ebay. Many times I'd like to get more than what I did for a particular item. But, it's not fair to the people who spend a week tracking one of my items--and perhaps even hoping to catch a bargain--for me to pull the rug out from under them using false pretense. That's why reserve auctions and set sales were created. If a seller chooses not to use them, and then goes the "other" route, they're simply not playing fair. This isn't some holier-than-thou bulls**t on my part. Just how I want to be treated as a buyer myself.

    Just my two pesos. ;)
     
  4. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    I completely understand where you are coming from, and I agree, let the chips fall where they may! Very rarely have I killed an item. Most of the time it was because I think I needed a better set of pictures, or I really did make a mistake that can't be simply fixed. Generally I just fix the wording and change the opening bid price.

    I am not sure it is a "fair forum" there. I think ebay has given big corporations freedom there to do things others are not allowed to do. We won't get into an ebay bashing thing here. But I do agree that it is in general best to let the chips fall and it should even out over the long haul.

    I have had plenty of issues with ebay over the last 8 years. And so while it has been a great source of extra income when I am having a bad month, I don't have too much trust in them anymore. And I feel the need to be very proactive about everything concerning them.
     
  5. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    I got $46.00 for a MINT MFSL Who Quadraphenia CD set with original stickered shrink still on slip case!!!!!! How the hell did that happen I don't know. Opened copies with no stickered shrink fetch $95.00 on average.

    They never go for 46 bucks?????? :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
     
  6. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter

    Well, "fair forum" in how we the sellers and buyers interact. At least we can have some control over that. Don't even get me going on some of "Ebay The Corporation's" questionable practices...lol!

    There's no doubt that they don't abide by some of their very own rules and mores when it comes to providing a level playing field. Their (mega) Power Sellers are their life blood. :laugh:
     
  7. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter

    PS - If a Gort gets a chance, perhaps they can ammend my initial post (#1) at the bottom: :)

    Edit: I was misinformed about the new private identity-"asterisk thing" and how it's currently implemented on Ebay (many thanks to MikeyH). I would like to strike that aspect of my original post. That is, regardless of my feeling on the seller pulling his original auction early (i.e. my negative opinion still stands), these new bids are indeed legitimate in the new listing. My sincere apologies for the "shill bidding" assumption. 11/6 2:05 EST.

    Dave
     
  8. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    One more point, when I was refering to killing an auction because I was not happy with the lack of interest, I was not talking about canceling bids and then ending. I do it before any bids come in.

    If it has 15 hours to go with one watcher, and 9 hits, that means that the one watcher is going to likely walk off with the item at opening bid price.

    So since this watcher did not place a bid (just wants to play the sniper game I guess), they lose their chance, and item is pulled right out from under their watchful eyes.

    This I think is fair game.
     
  9. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter


    Yes, I believe that is definitely fair game. In that case, it's not about trying to "override" low-ball bidding and such. :)
     
  10. ATSMUSIC

    ATSMUSIC Forum Resident

    Location:
    MD, USA
    so you spend all this time and effort just because you don't like what one seller did on Ebay? :confused:
     
  11. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter

    Uh no...it didn't start out as "all this time and effort." Just an observation (a partially inaccurate one at that on my part) and a question on an item that I was watching (i.e. the "am I missing something here" comment in my original post pretty much sums that up). From there, it turned into a debate, discourse, and even some enlightenment - hopefully on all ends. That's what this forum was originally set up for, no?
     
  12. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
  13. ATSMUSIC

    ATSMUSIC Forum Resident

    Location:
    MD, USA
    if you say so :D
     
  14. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter

    I do. :D :D
     
  15. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    Just observations from an articulate and thoughtful poster, we could use more of them round here.

    Thanks Dave.
     
  16. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter

    Before I'm annointed for "sainthood" (thanks though Jeff), I'll just add that I was fairly brutal to the Ebay seller looking back at my original post. Score one for him on the "shill" part, and score one for me on the "unfairly ending the auction early" part. We'll call it a cyber-draw for the moment.

    Hell, I *might* even bid on the damn thing at this point. I've got an itch for a new (i.e. vintage) bedroom setup.
     
  17. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    You can score one of the "other" Marantz amps that appear on ebay, you don't need that seller's item.

    I put together a bedroom set up with thrift store stuff. Two Yamaha amps (for quad DTS discs) = 4 channels, a Hi-Fi VHS deck, a Pioneer LD player that acually has a remote control, Pioneer DD TT, a Marantz amp 22?? (used as a preamp for the feed to computer captured needle drops).

    Except for the Turntable, every piece of gear was bought at thrift stores. Average price per piece $15.00.

    I have an outboard DTS decoder that is fed to the two Yamaha amps. Funny way to do it, but it works.

    But the silver Marantz is used just for it's preamp between TT and computer. So I can be listening or doing other things (in the living) room while the TT is feeding my computer via the Marantz in the bedroom with that rig.

    Ya know besides new stylus and or new cart on the TT, I have not changed the vinyl to CD set up in five years. It's just a Pioneer DD 1976 TT, but it seems to have very low noise, and the tracking is perfect on inner grooves, so that the CDRs made are loud and clean.

    But I think the nice sound is partly due to using that Marantz as a preamp. I get perfect tracking, and proper levels in, and do no processing other than removal of a tick or click here or there. I'm kind of amazed at how nice those CDRs sound. A Turtle Beach soundcard at 16/44.1 is all I ever bothered with.

    Anyway, I know I'm rambling on and on here.

    But, Marantz 70s amps are good sounding. :agree: You should be able to score one on the cheap.
     
  18. Eli

    Eli Party Coordinator

    Location:
    Isle of Lucy
    Don't mind ATSMUSIC -- he's just spreading some more of his "cheer." :D
     
  19. QuestionMark?

    QuestionMark? 4TH N' GOAL

    Location:
    The End Zone
    Thanks for posting this! Interesting to learn some of this stuff. :thumbsup:
     
  20. Jay F

    Jay F New Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    No bids? No problem.
     
  21. On Ebay you can end the auction (and/or cancel bids) practically without reason. If "questioned" by Ebay the most convenient and accepted excuse is "The item was broken or damaged while handling and is no longer suitable for sale"...then your Buddy lists the same item at a new higher price and tries to drive the market forward.

    There are exactly 123 ways to skin the eBay cat...but of course that is only my personal, private opinion. MY Buddy says there are 134 ways ....but he won't reveal them all even to me.

    Some folks don't want their left hand to know what their right hand is doing.

    Some folks don't want their left hand to even know they have a right hand!

    In Capitalism Let the Buyer Beware.
     
  22. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter

    Oh yes, very true. Sometimes I think those old Marantz receivers actually "reproduce" themselves. Everybody and their uncle must have owned one circa 1973...lol! I see them everywhere.
     
  23. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    Yes, they do come around now and again, and again.

    I would like to have two of these amps stacked for the quad DTS decode. But I saw a second one for 20 bucks and decide to think about it for a few minutes, and someone else nabbed it out from under me at a thrift store.

    I would just buy from someone located a close distance on ebay so it does not sit in transist too long and it'll be fine.

    All of the pretty blue lights have now gone out on my 2220B. I don't know when I will fix them. :( :cry: :( :cry:
     
  24. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I bought from this seller before and he sells really nice products. I got a 2230 from him that was cleaned and lubed, beautiful unit, really. It functions perfectly, all lights work, and is dead mint. He is also a member over at audiokarma.org. The only problem was that he packed it very poorly.

    I can't blame him too much for ending the auction early if he was about to lose money.
     
  25. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter

    Well, again, that's what reserve auctions and set sales were created for. By circumventing the auction process, the scale becomes tipped toward the side of the seller when it should actually be an equal "partnership" between the seller and buyer. By letting the auction go its natural course, the law of averages says that occasionally the seller will benefit (i.e. make more money) and occasionally the buyer will (i.e. catch a bargain). That's the premise which makes participating in an auction so potentially exciting for *both* parties. And, that's what makes it a bona fide, *real* auction.

    But, it does seem the seller got the message. That is, if one is worried about "losing money"...set a reserve price or list it as a set sale (i.e. use a BIN price). Or, a combo of both. Problem solved. :)
     
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