Is this the new way of shill bidding on eBay?

Discussion in 'Third Party Sales & Auctions' started by David R. Modny, Nov 5, 2007.

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  1. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter

    I'll also add that this all plays into the whole concept of "strategy" and how it factors into online auctions when one is a seller. A seller has to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of listing techniques. For example, while a reserve auction will protect the seller, it can also often be a turn-off to some potential bidders.That is, many people won't even bid on reserve auctions (or tend to bid more cautiously). Conversely, if a seller chooses not to do this, he may snag more bidders, but then has to risk not getting that ultimate "big prize" winning bid that he's hoping for. All this is strategy that a seller has to consider and, again, all part of what makes an auction potentially exciting for both seller and buyer. Stopping an auction early (for no *authentic* reason) because a seller doesn't like, or anticipates, a potentially unacceptable outcome ISN'T strategy. I liken the latter to being in a chess game, discovering that you're on the receiving end of a checkmate, and then knocking all the pieces off the board when you realize you're about to lose! :)
     
  2. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    Poor sportsmanship is disgusting plain and simple. And it seems we are living in an era where we see more and more of it to the point where it is (to some) almost acceptable.

    I see it everywhere. And I have called people on it both in email and in person, and it's an ugly sight when you mention it and get a blank stare from the shyster.

    It's low class being shown. I got a job off of Craig's list for some video work. A young girl who shot a documentary needed the footage captured to a few hard drives. She said it was 70 hours of footage, and we came to an agreement for me to be paid $700 for the work. I went into way more detail with naming the scenes and cameras as well as date of shot when logging (than she had said she needed). At the end of the gig I realized that she only had 60 hours of footage as some tapes had blank ends. So when she came by to pick up the drives and her tapes, I charged her only $600 and not $700 as agreed. I could have easily charged her $700 and been done with it. But sometimes I think it's better to treat people like you would want to be treated and not think just about that $100. Perhaps she will be back with more work for me or it will come around some other way.

    But being so concerned about every little dollar when dealing with real people is just low class. And it makes you a bottom feeder, and you will likely stay a bottom feeder. My sights are set somewhat higher I would hope.
     
  3. houston

    houston Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, Texas, USA
    Ebay's beginning to bother me, and I'm only a buyer; I just found out I could review a half.com purchase, I had 4 dating back several months I just reviewed...why don't they list them on the main Ebay account page, rather than bury them several more clicks away? and my account now says all of my info is not available now, try again later, and, of course, it's not lising the dcc gold I just bought and paid mint for...hmm...is there a problem with the seller? seems like a secret Ebay's keeping to themselves...I clicked on my email for that item and it says 'system down', I click on a different purchase and it shows all the details
     
  4. houston

    houston Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, Texas, USA
    update: just chatted "live" with an Ebay Rep, told him I thought Ebay was playing games, he said Ebay had a bug, and to check Ebay.Ca (Canada) and all the transactions should show...they did :shake:
     
  5. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I agree with your premise, but I have known "good guy" business owners that lost their business. At times like this, the consumer can lose out because there is less competition and product availability.

    The seller in question does thoroughly clean, check and repair the units he sells, at least this was true in my case. I believe these types of sellers are good for vintage electronic sales on ebay.

    I have, like others, purchased vintage electonics on ebay that were crap and lost money. That is why I would give this seller a pass. I don't see any indication that this seller is continually playing games with his auctions.

    I think David is whining just a bit. I would rather have sellers that have quality electronics and back up what they sell, than being able to go online and brag about the big score I got by screwing some other poor sucker.
     
  6. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter


    You know Tullman, I probably should let this kind of personal baiting roll off my back. But with all due respect, I just don't get this statement.

    First up, how is starting a discussion about the various rules that Ebay puts in place, and how they affect the greater good of us here as both sellers and buyers, "whining???"

    I didn't single this seller out intentionally, regardless of whether he's "good for Ebay" (which by the way involves him buying equipment on Ebay as well, and thus having to be the beneficiary of fair play himself in order to catch a much needed bargain for his restoration work). I simply was watching an auction where it was obvious to me that *a* seller had prematurely stopped an auction and then relisted for the sole purpose of circumventing the outcome - and thus wanted to discuss it. Much like many did when MMF was doing the exact same thing. I even posted to this thread in the form of a question and in hopes of clarification (i.e. the "am I missing something here" part in my original post) Furthermore, when I was misinformed about how the new system of hidden identities and how the use of asterisks works (i.e. the "200 dollar" rule), I vehemently apologized (several times!) and humbly retracted my initial accusation of shill bidding. If you like, go back and read my first post and then this entire thread for proof of this.

    Finally, and just to show that I wasn't putting forth some holier-than-thou bull**** judgment, I noted that if this was simply a "one time action" on his part that I would be apt to cut the guy some slack. Going on to say that, in the end, I might still end up bidding on the damned thing MYSELF!! As a result, this thread then turned into a pretty good dialogue about the ethics (and rules) of selling on Ebay.


    Now, please tell me how exactly this construes whining? This forum is about information. We traded some of that in this thread - including just exactly what Ebay's policies WERE regarding the premature stoppage of auctions.


    You've certainly made your opinions clear in this thread. I'll keep making mine too if I feel I have something to add to the dialogue. And hopefully...without the personal attacks.
     
  7. I don't think the seller has gained anything by this action other than getting to pay two listing fees. If you click on the no bids for the first auction, you will see $99.99 was the highest bid prior to cancel and we have no way of knowing how high it would have gone before ending. I am often amazed at how much my listings go up in the last minute and if several are watching a rare item, I sure don't worry about the price not being high enough hours before the auction ends. I have never canceled an auction because the price wasn't high enough, I always accept the risk it will sell at a low price when I list it. Now he has a likelihood of not selling it once again and all he will have to show is two paid listing fees if it doesn't reach the reserve price. If he sells it, there is no reason for me to believe the price is higher than the first auction would have realized. Maybe higher, maybe lower there is no way to know but I would have saved the additional listing fees and let it ride the first time.

    Chris
     
  8. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    It's good to air concerns as a buyer as well as a seller comcerning online purchases. This is just a conversation about what does go on in ebay and elsewhere. Good snacks for thought or something like that.

    It never hurts to see how vintage electronics play out on ebay.

    Generally when an item listing is closed for no obvious reason, a buyer emailed seller and said look I'll give you $XX now if you close it, but I need you to ship within one day, can you do it? Done Deal!
     
  9. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter

    I tend to be more sympathetic to that scenario. Ebay even has an "item no longer available" option, as I seem to recall, as a bona fide reason for stopping the auction. So, I'm sure that goes on all the time. The reason I'm more sympathetic to it is a) it's apparently allowed by Ebay and b) the guy who made the "stop offer" is probably going to win the auction anyway with an insanely high bid.
     
  10. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    Exactly, that buyer is offering way above market rate, why not let this person have it if they really want it. Often it is a gift for someone, time is of the essence.
     
  11. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    No personal attack intended. Sorry.
     
  12. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter


    No problem. Must just be a full moon out - I'm feeling a bit edgy lately. That, or "male menopause" is setting in with me...lol. :laugh:
     
  13. Curiosity

    Curiosity Just A Boy

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Well, we all can get to feel that way. Good to see you guys make up.
     
  14. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter

  15. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    Ok Dave,

    I did an analysis of this seller and what they are doing here. They want 200.00+ for any of these Marantz units that they are listing.

    They are paying a fortune in fees to ebay due to their high opening bids and reserve prices set.

    They are hoping that the lookers will click on the link to their own website, and then buy directly from them. Ebay is simply their advertising venue which sometimes makes a good sale at $200 to $325 a unit.

    http://www.clearviewelectronics.com/

    So this is how you can strike back at them and put a serious damper on their methods. You can do it one of two ways, write them a message asking about when more of these units will be offered for sale as you really want one and theirs looks so nice and clean, cleaner than the others selling them. Do this through ebay's message thing, and hide your email address in that check box. Then they will send you a message offering a direct buy not using ebay. As soon as you get that direct buy offer, report it to ebay right away.

    Then send another complaint to ebay through "report this item" and say that seller is posting their website address in auction listing to avoid fees by bypassing fair normal channels on ebay.

    Do not even mention the closed items, just those two separate complaints should do the trick. Don't mention the other complaint in each message to ebay.

    Then answer the offer with a "I'll think about it" as my wife might freak out if I buy myself a gift before we have bought any others' gifts this holiday season. But Merry Christmas, I'll be back.:D
     
  16. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter

    Yeah...that is kind of what I figured. The funny thing is that I finally had the needed funds in my Paypal account and was getting ready to pull the trigger tomorrow. Though, admittedly, 150-155 + shipping would've probably been my limit (his last one--the one he stopped and re-listed--ended up going for that) .

    The sad part is that it does look like he does nice work on these units. I have no problem with him making a nice profit. I just wish he'd put the damn thing up at the price he's looking for vs. wasting everyone's time and listing these under the facade of an "auction."
     
  17. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    Really? I thought his work looked kind of basic. Like he is not doing much but shine of the front and new bulbs.

    He has a disclaimer of no guarantee for performance and the high probability of damage in shipping.

    That was what would make me not want to bother with that seller.

    I'd rather buy a dusty one and clean the front with WD40 myself and replace the bulbs myself also. Spend 60.00 plus 30 for shipping and be done with it. The knobs can be removed to really clean around them,

    It's just the methods of this seller that irk you. I think he is over charging.

    You know why these units are not fetching $600 like one would think for a really sweet sounding 30 year old piece of gear? No optical in, no remote, lower wattage. That is why I think you will get a $50 beauty if you just put in an auto search that reminds you every time one is listed.

    Best times to get best prices are June 25th to Sept. 25th, and Nov. 25th to Jan 10th. These are the times most folks do not want to deal with ebay. I have been selling for 7 years or something like that, and have seen the steep decline. I just know that bargain Marantz is out there for you. I think 102.52 should be your very top bid on one. Just my opinion.
     
  18. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter

    I guess I'm just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt...lol.

    Truth be told, these units in their "raw" state (which are admittedly a dime-a-dozen) usually don't got for over a hundred...probably more like 85-90. The tuners usually need to be aligned as well - which I believe he claims to do (as well as checking the idle current bias). I was willing to pay him the premium though for not having to inhale the dust myself...lol.
     
  19. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    I have an additional ebay id for dealing with sellers -- as to not ruin my seller account feedback when things turn bad. I'll see what I can do. :)
     
  20. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    WD-40 on an old tee shirt, small screwdriver and a vacuum cleaner is not everyone's idea of a good time. :shake:
     
  21. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter

    Don't worry about it Jeff. At this point, I might wait and see anyway. It's not a priority for me. When the right unit comes along (Marantz or otherwise), I'll grab it.
     
  22. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
  23. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    I know you want that seller's Marantz! But they are charging too damn much.

    I'll bet I can find one in LA all cleaned up for less than a C note? :agree: :laugh:
     
  24. David R. Modny

    David R. Modny Senior Member Thread Starter

    Nah...it really doesn't have that much to do with price - or even the brand. I just happened to be following one unit by a particular seller, watched what unfolded, and then saw another one go up with the same scenario. I'm not sure that I'm even sold on the exact vintage receiver yet (though if fate hadn't intervened I would've pulled the trigger on this one).

    I've owned a few of these "oldies" along the way myself. I used to own an old 70's Sansui boat anchor (with their proprietary tone controls) that I liked as well.

    Usually, if it doesn't happen...it's for a reason. Fate. Karma...lol.
     
  25. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    I have one of those 70's Sansui boat anchors myself. And yes, the tone controls are really something huh! You turn up the treble and you really hear it go! Same with the bass. Mine is the 7070 model.

    That's funny you mention the Sansui tank. Or that I have one right now in my storage room wrapped in a plastic trash bag I swear.

    And yeap, if it does not fall into place too easy, it might not be meant to be. I sense that Marantz seller is just not the one. You'd likely get it and have a buzz in one channel in the phono stage. They would say too bad!
     
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