A 1¾" (H) x 15¼" (D) x 20" (W) solid Maple butchers cutting board suggest by Steve H. made a considerable difference under my power amp on the floor. I was apprehensive to say the least after trying a few isolation devices that seem to have no results on my SS system. If you already have a Maple cutting board give it a try and let us know if you have positive results like I did.
I was gifted some wooden cones and sorbothane by a dealer I had printed for. Knowing they wouldn't work I left them months before testing them out. Had a mate around and we had a few to try out. He wasn't convinced either Could not believe the difference they made to all of the kit. Rega Isis CD player, Pass Labs XP20 Pre, Chord SPM1200E power all has the sound improved. Believe they isolate the kit and stop it vibrating others. Current set up uses the best I've heard Black Ravioli Mark 3. Best VFM RDC cones and bases. Sorbothane the least impressive
I use little bumpers (silicone) under the two sets of NHT speakers that have to live on table tops to decouple them from the entire surface to minimize resonating. Stands would be a far better choice but no room for them in either of these applications. I also use a set combined with wood blocks in my library system because I wanted a turntable in there and the only spot was above the amp (which doesn't get too warm). In that case, it was mostly to provide height to maintain air flow. I don't know how well the little silicone half dome self stick bumpers really work but can say that under the two sets of acoustic suspension speakers I run on table tops, they pretty clearly prevent the table from resonating and make the base noticeably less muddy sounding. Sadly, these are not audiophile priced and I bought them from Amazon so they probably don't work nearly as well had I spent $400... These are under the two pair of speakers: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08KDM9QY3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 And these, with 2x2x.75" wood blocks are under the turntable: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075KJ2B78/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Maybe this is the most effective way in terms of? Not sure. A 2 chassis solution would likely cost more though.
Currently my turntable is sitting directly on top of my rack. I'm pretty sure it will benefit from some sort of additional isolation, so I plan to put it on a bamboo board and put the bamboo board on my rack, but use some sort of isolation between the board and the rack. I also have a pair of Soundcare Super Spikes that I think will fit in place of the stock VPI feet for the table itself. I'll also try that out as a possible upgrade. Turntable coupled to the board, which is decoupled from the rack is kind of the idea. One can probably measure the amount of vibration a component is subject to, but how that would be done I have no clue. I assume pretty sophisticated measuring equipment would be needed, the cost of which is probably not low. Then there is the question of how much does that vibration impact sound? Seems easier to just do some trial and error with inexpensive isolation devices. I don't have any real apparent issues that need dealing with - just an attempt to take performance up another notch. I'll know if it works when I hear it - if I prefer the sound after I swap isolation in and out of the system over time then I'll conclude that it is beneficial. Wasn't planning on using the Vibrapods under anything other than the turntable platform, but given the cost I figure I should order several pairs (to save on shipping). Thus the idea of using them under multiple components. Are you saying Vibrapods don't work? I've read a lot of poor reviews for sorbothane in terms of how it impacts sound, and Vibrapods seem to be well regarded. I'm open to changing my mind as I haven't made any purchases yet.
I don't know of any all encompassing answer to the question; it may depend on the component as well as what it is placed on-- heavy furniture, light weight stand, etc. In a related thread that was asking about the efficacy of Vibrapods under a phono stage, I related my own experience with the power supply to my phono stage, trying out 1/2 dozen different products, some couplers, others decouplers. Some didn't really do much; others tightened the sound to produce greater clarity at the expense of some stridency. I wound up settling on Stillpoints and still use them. You can hear the difference among these things and certainly the difference between the unit on stock feet vs the Stillpoints. Shown below with an early GEC u52 rectifier: IMG_1153 by William Hart, on Flickr
Good question and fairly important. I use a few things that really help and I might add some more. My power amp is large in area and quite heavy. Because of this I have it sitting on the floor beside the equipment rack. The floor is hardwood therefore tends to transmit lots of vibrations and noise. To help control those extraneous factors I purchased a specifically designed platform for the purpose a Harmonics Resolutions Systems E1-1-719 amp stand beside the main Target Stand. I’m also thinking of buying another HRS platform to place under my tube preamp mainly to help isolate the tubes from vibrations both coming up through the stand even though it’s actually pretty well isolated on the Target stand itself. Why? I want to take all precautions to protect the rather expensive tubes. Also I was told the equipment was rather close to the energy my speakers can put out. The main target stand is sitting atop a specially constructed 2” thick very heavy MDF platform that has four adjustable sorbothane hemisphere feet. It’s done a great job all in all. The HRS stuff isn’t exactly inexpensive but I don’t think overpriced for what it does and I can very highly recommend them.
It's a slippery slope to be sure. In my system I own a Billy Bags rack which is an isolation system in and of itself. I bought the rack because I liked the looks of it, I was totally surprised how much better the system sounded! Through the years I've accumulated brass cones, IsoAcoustics orea's, butcher block platform, sorbathane isopucks, hell, way back when, I used solid pucks of pure sorbathane, some of the gear has stains from them! Acoustic panels also figure in on the equation. My system sounds great, as always your ears are the final frontier! I must admit, the idea of removing all isolation support to see if I hear the difference sounds intriguing. We'll see! It's funny, I believe I'll definitely hear a difference, for the worst! Which means the experiment suddenly becomes labor intensive when I factor in that I'll just wind up putting everything back! A slippery slope indeed!
Nordost states that isolating isn't really the best approach for electronics, since most of the vibrations are generated inside the component. So their solution is to dissipate that energy by coupling. For my turntable platform, in addition to Vibrapods, I may also consider Audioquest's Q-feet, which use a sorbothane gel to isolate. And for other electronics like CD players, perhaps some sort of coupling rather than de-coupling would be best. Guess I should do more reading.
the thing with sorbothane hemisphere, is if not properly loaded, they dont work. Their is extensive third party measurments supporting the effectivness of sorbothane. not sure the material used in the vibrapods google gearlsutz sorbothane. Many studio and professionals started using well loaded hemisphere sorbothane under their speakers to effectively decouple the speakers to the stands/console. When properly used, very few material can reduce vibration like sorbothane. You have polymer which is 10 time ($$$$) or elaborate decoupling spirng loaded platforms ($$$$$$$$$$).
Thanks, I'll look into that a bit more. Vibrapods are kind of the same in that they require proper loading. But good timing for this thread, as me just buying a bunch of Vibrapods all at once is probably not the best approach!
I used to use a variety of isolation devises. At some point I decided that they made my system sound different but not necessarily better. Now the only ones I use and really feel improves the sound of my system is Herbie’s Audio Labs big fat dots between my speakers and stands. I came to the same conclusion with cables. They all made a difference but not necessarily an improvement.
Kyocera A-910 on thevintageknob.org If you click the "user" button on the left side in the middle, you might find some useful info that helps answer these questions. I did NOT used to believe in isolation/anti-resonant devices/technologies except for TT and CD/DVD/BluRay spinners. I have a ton of gear and if I had to pick my favorite sounding amp, it would be the Kyocera. Then I clicked on the "user" button in the above link and do think that their anti-resonant technologies do indeed play a significant role in the SQ of this amp.
I take it as a given that most, probably all, manufacturers focus on anti-resonance to some degree or another. And everything vibrates even if we can't see those vibrations.
Yes, micro-vibrations. That leads us to the companies who manufacture devices to treat micro-vibration.
Im sure some other manufacturers do use anti-resonant technologies, but I dont see these technologies marketed/advertised much (then again the last time I picked up a stereo magazine was over 20 years ago). Kyocera only made stereo equipment briefly (7-8 years?) and got into stereo stuff bc they purchased Cybernet who made stereo equipment (I have a CA-700 integrated, sweet little integrated). They were a ceramics company before that (Kyoto Ceramics started in 59, changed name to Kyocera in 82) and I would say "ahead of the anti-resonant game(actually THE best at it)" at the time as far as ceramics used in anti-resonant technologies (amp was made in mid 80s) compared to other stereo equipment manufacturers.
Some manufacturers use special mounting designs on their transformers, especially large toroids. Anti-resonant materials are often added in upgrade packages, not available in stock models.
Some? Sony in the 80's were integrating in their amps chassis elaborate ways to provide isolation for their transformers. most big boys (denon, sony, luxman, etc) did even before the 80's. Folks, dont spend hundreds on those ridiculous useless "hi-fi" racks. sorbothane is all one need and it cost peanuts.
Bull! Mana racks are complete game-changers (although sadly they’re not made anymore).What is it about the Steve Hoffman forum that draws these audio posters with the typical comment “I bought this cheap “fill in the blank” so everything else is not needed or a ripoff” “No need to try anything else and you can’t prove to me otherwise” Don’t see these kinds of statements to nearly the degree I see THIS on this Audio forum
first, what makes you think ive only tested one isolation device? I call your post a bunch of BS, asumptions and empty attacks. engineers dont need to test all the material in the world to know which are best suited for the task at hands. find me one data for those mana racks
here we go again.First of all Mana racks go against traditional rack designs NOT by using heavy mass,non resonant materials or a combination of both.They act more a mechanical filter by tuning (something more like a musical instrument).They’re enjoyed and still enjoy a cult following to those who have experienced their performance first hand.In fact James Guthrie (Pink Floyd producer) was so impressed he had Mana design a series of platforms for the band recording equipment.If you Google Mana there’s an interview on line with it’s creator John Watson who tells the story.Link to the story but just touches on the Pink Floyd connection:MANA ACOUSTICS / JOHN WATSON: Howard Popeck speaks at length to people with interesting things to say: Mana Acoustics’ John Watson – the complete interview | Audiophile News & Music Review
