Fancy feet under your gear just makes everything look cooler, it’s like your kit is smoking a pipe ruminatively.
Good choice. I bought Vibrapods and cones to put under the wooden slab my turntable sits on, partly out of curiosity and partly for aesthetic purposes. I hated the look of the cork and rubber blocks I tried first. Those cork blocks didn't do squat for vibration isolation. A modest tap on the wall shelf it's all perched on was very audible through the speakers. The Vibrapod/cone combo gave my vinyl playback notably better bass definition/clarity and an overall quieter backdrop. Finger taps are now nearly inaudible. Money well spent, IMO. While the Vibrapods may not look as good as some IsoAcoustics Orea's, they require a lot less spending.
I tried Mana about 30 years ago. It worked well for me. Upgraded seriously with bases and reference tops. Added different footers which also worked Left in the dust by Creaktiv racks for much more dough Thought the footers could go then but no. Black ravioli the best. Tried to resist as they cost about 70 GB pounds each but eventually bought them to get more music from the system
There are no shortage of items audiophiles can spend money on that I feel provide little if any benefit including all sorts of wires, but isolation under tube gear is not one of them. I can't point to any scientific study that says reducing vibrations in tubes makes them sound better (because I've never looked) but I can absolutely hear the difference and would otherwise never waste my money on it. Placing Symposium Rollerblock Jr HDSE's under my tube amp absolutely improves the sound through lower distortion and improved soundstage. The transformers on the amp are massive and definitely vibrate internally. I'm not on some crusade to prove this to anyone. I know it sounds better to my ears and that's all that matters.
Thanks. Definitely going to try it. For the money it's a no-brainer to experiment with. I'll also experiment with some sorbothane and see which option I like most.
What I've experienced putting IsoAcoustics ISO-Mini Pucks under my tube gear mirrors yours. I didn't do that to prove something to anyone else but myself and my ears. Like you I heard a difference in the same way as you describe it. After testing a few alternatives I liked how the Mini-Pucks made the soundstage grow bigger. After that I started to experiment with iso feet under my speakers as well and finally found that the IsoAcoustics Gaia II was the most efficient alternative for my sound system and room. I'll never regret getting isolation feet for my tube gear and speakers.
@avanti1960 Who said you to had a 'problem' to begin with? I think it all boils down to experimentation. I've purchased those Vibrapods mentioned earlier in this thread and they were a complete waste of money. Nothing changed in regards to SQ under my Oppo or a tubed headphone amp. I've also used sorbothane stick-on footers as well and I'm not sure if they did anything either. But they might have. I simply wanted to put them under my PC's DAC which had no stock footers and sat directly on my glass desk. I've used anti-vibration pads (2"x2") under my TT's maple block and those were ok to good in lowering vibrations getting into the TT. Changed those out for stainless steel/spring footers and they made a huge difference. Both in SQ and in anti-vibration from the environment. Just knock on the shelf below the TT while the needle is in the groove and it's obvious they made a big difference over the pads. Sound quality was cleaned up. Almost like dialing in SRA from muddy to that place where things just snap into focus/balance. I bought a few sets of the SS/spring type footers. They're cheap and did such a great job under my TT that I figured why not try one under my PS Audio DS DAC. I've made too many changes with my setup/streaming/servers to know or care if they were audible under my DAC. My digital end has never sounded better and I'll just say it's the sum of all parts that contribute.
With a CD player, you want to both isolate the component from external vibrations and absorb internal vibrations caused by the motor. I tried several different products under my Marantz SACD 30n before determining that Vibrapod discs + Vibrapod cones (in place of the stock feet, with the metal ball of the cone under the screw hole) sounded the best.
I have to say I am perplexed one can debate about cables and such all day long but resonance control is real actual science and is used in countless fields. I'm sure some footers and such are expensive for the sake of being expensive but there is real science behind most of them. If you feel it doesn't make a difference with your gear fine but it does for some and the scientific reasoning behind it is valid.
My amp weighs over 60 lbs and the I can hear transformers humming when I'm close to it... The Gaiia 3's made a big difference with my speakers, a lot more than expected, so you got me wondering about if those Rollerblocks would do the same. I looked up a review on the the Rollerblock Jr HDSE's and the reviewers enthusiasm was tempered with these caveats that just made sense : "The results I achieved were with my ears, with my system, and in my room. And, it's possible that the performance of my system represents something of a sweet spot for interfacing with the Symposium Acoustics products. It's feasible that the resolution of systems at a more entry level would not be sufficient to demonstrate the virtues of the Rollerblock Jr. HDSEs in such stark relief. Conversely, ultra-high-end components might have such overbuilt construction and resonance control built in to render the Symposium Acoustics' characteristics less discernible in nature." Full review here : Symposium Acoustics Rollerblock Jr HDSESymposium Acoustics Rollerblock Jr HDSE Coupling / Decoupling Footers - Positive Feedback
Some do, and charge extra for it, probably about as much as one of those fancy isolation platforms costs.... JohnK
Exactly. I mean, y’all can say what you want … one day your biopsy is gonna depend on an electron microscope stayin’ real steady Regrettably, it’s not just real science, it’s fairly advanced real science—the kind we didn’t get to in high school Physics. So when confronted with this topic, we struggle, tend to give up as soon as we see a long formula, and start inserting good ol’ human intuition in place of real understanding. Too bad intuition sucks at illuminating stuff like this Anyway! Lots of ways to approach the topic, and so many different things to try. That said, since transformers were mentioned, I figured I’d share something that’s repeatedly worked well with them—especially toroidals. More of a technique than a specific product recommendation (which seems unfair in such YMMV circumstances) to address vibration at a power transformer’s mounting location. Green arrow points to end of DAC’s toroidal transformer mounting bolt, which rests in/on the tapped mounting hole of a ball bearing isolation device. The other two matching devices contact bottom of chassis as expected. (BTW, most of chassis is stripped away—something I typically do to these wicked, wicked things.) Different DAC but similar idea here—but in this case, heads of transformer mounting screws rest on sharp stainless steel points. (Which in turn rest on Delrin.) The power transformer in this preamp is an EI type … but, same method works here, too. Heads of transformer mounting screws rest on the tips of ceramic isolators. In fact, even when you’re not connecting to a transformer, it might be worth experimenting with these devices in upside-down orientation and sticking into the heads of chassis screws.
Right on there, Jim. I'm using a big Minus K bench top for my turntable-- it is spendy, but works to solve a footfall problem. I didn't buy it to "lift veils" or have my "jaw drop, such that I stopped taking notes and just listened to the music" (two well known tropes among reviewers). To me, it's horses for courses. What's the issue that is being addressed? And what are the various ways of approaching it? Not all has to be expensive- there are a fair number of DIY tricks that people employ for "isolation" without spending a lot of money. My experience, having used a variety of products over the years (not all) is that they change the voicing of the system, sometimes to a small degree, sometimes more significantly. I have a friend, the great Karmeli, who has a fabulous collection of serious gear (some of you may read his posts on What's Best) and David eschews all tweaks. He uses Rat Shack wire, and standard power cords. So, there's a wide spectrum of possibilities, but I wouldn't reject this stuff out of hand. On the flip side, I think people get into hi-fi and it's like musical instrument gear-- acquisition syndrome, ways to spend money to eke out that last iota. In many cases, the money may be more wisely spent on better gear rather than "accessorizing" but this statement, just like others, is a generalization-- you have to get down to specifics. And try the thing in your system. I would imagine most dealers, both brick and mortar and online, allow home trial. And some of this stuff is so cheap that it is worth the almost trivial cost just to experiment.
Long-winded reply: Turntables can suffer from footfalls. I don't have this issue; concrete slab floor in the basement. Turntables can suffer from High SPL. Also phono stages, line stages, CD players, etc. Tubed versions more than solid state, but ss is not immune to microphonics. I do have an issue with the high SPL root cause and have attacked it with gusto: Speakers are spiked to tile-on-concrete. Bottoms of shelves and the inside of back/side panels are covered with a full layer of constrained layer damping . Rockville/dynamat adhesive polymer/asphalt faced with aluminum foil. Heavy unwieldly rolls. Apply with a roller. This is ugly stuff even in the black anodized version if it has shiny logos. Don't place it where visible when seated. Panel behind the components and the inner sidewalls also get 1" recycle denim (I'd consider rockwool if starting over), especially around the turntable. This is less ugly, and mostly hides in the shadows. Front-end components sit on thick butcherblock shelves on top of either sorbothane (keyboard wrist pads from MicroCenter, cut into 3" lengths) or (pvc) Isopods and Isocones. Generally requires 4-8 of the Type 2 Isopods, or 4 of the Type 3 Isopods in my setup. The weight of the butcherblock alone is near the limit of Type 1 Isopods. Turntable sits on a butcherblock sandwich. Upper one on Cones (beware - they slide). Lower one on Pods. Power amps are the closest to the floor and better coupled to the seismic drain. On butcher block, but on HVAC elastomer sandwiches (these have some constrained layer damping). I can understand hearing no difference while using headphones. Can you imagine the SPL through cans that would be required to vibrate a tubed phono stage, even if only a meter away?
From how I understand it, components give off mechanical vibration I can see this being true for a turntable and a CD player but for something that is solid state like a power, Integrated or preamp with no moving parts the jury is still out on that supposedly the Toroidal transformers and power supplies can give off the same or similar type of vibration
