Jack Kirby - King Of Comics

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Purple Jim, Nov 18, 2016.

  1. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    If you're not familiar there's a site called KIRBY'S WHAT IF, check it out!
     
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  2. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    At the time Wings were performing a song titled MAGNETO AND TITANIUM MAN two Marvel characters. Here's an image of the stage backdrop, I don't think it was drawn by Kirby though...

    [​IMG]
     
  3. beccabear67

    beccabear67 Musical omnivore.

    Location:
    Victoria, Canada
    Nice collection of pages there! I need to get a copy of 2001 #9 again someday for my collection.
     
  4. Exotiki

    Exotiki The Future Ain’t What It Use To Be

    Location:
    Canada
    Was flipping through my Kirby Collectors and remembered the story I have wanted for so long. According to Kirby Collector #6: Jack Kirby wrote and penciled a complete 24 page ending to New Gods. Called Armagetto: The Last Battle. This was then rejected, reworked, rejected, altered, and heavily stretched out into the less than steller Hunger Dogs graphic novel. Although, thanks to Jack Kirby's grandson we got to see the cover for this story:

    [​IMG]

    Given that this cover still exists I pray that the original story does as well... What I would give to read that original 24-page ending to New Gods.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
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  5. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Based on what I know about Kirby, I doubt he would much care about the gender of a supporting character being altered. And I doubt even more strongly that he would object to a gay character. I think you're projecting your own opinions onto him without any basis.

    It's also worth noting that the character who is portrayed as gay in the upcoming Eternals film (Phastos) is not a Kirby character. He's apparently a character that was added to later, non-Kirby Eternals comics.
     
  6. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    That's sorta what happened, but not exactly.

    In 1984, DC was reprinting the original 11 issues of New Gods in a deluxe series with high-quality paper. Since they were doing two stories per issue, the sixth issue would have been short weight, so they came up with the idea of having Kirby draw a new "issue #12" of The New Gods that they could put in there, which would then lead into a graphic novel which would tie up the series. Kirby completed a new 25-page story called "On the Road to Armagetto." Then his plan was that the Hunger Dogs graphic novel would end the saga and kill off most of the characters. However, DC objected to Kirby's intended plot for Hunger Dogs (they didn't want the valuable properties killed off). So instead, they had Kirby draw a completely new story for issue #6 of the New Gods reprint series, and the 25-page story he'd already completed was repurposed as part of the graphic novel. Pages 10-18 and 31-46 of the Hunger Dogs graphic novel are the pages that originally comprised the "On the Road to Armagetto" 25-page lead-in story.

    So there's no unpublished Kirby artwork for that project... everything he completed did get used in the Hunger Dogs graphic novel. However, the artwork in the GN was altered (due to graphic novels having a different aspect ratio than regular comics) and it was also re-inked. Some panels were also rewritten to accommodate the expansion of the story. But there's no great unpublished end to the New Gods saga, since Kirby never wound up penciling the story that he originally planned.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  7. Exotiki

    Exotiki The Future Ain’t What It Use To Be

    Location:
    Canada
    You seem to be contradicting yourself here. But as far as Kirby Collector says 'On the Road to Armagetto' was fully penciled and shown to DC. From Kirby Collector 6:

    "Hunger Dogs started as a 24-page standard size comic called "On the Road to Armagetto" that would wrap-up New Gods. After a six-issue series reprinting New Gods #1-11, the plan called for the second half of the sixth issue to be Jack's new conclusion. After an initial meeting with DC about the story, Jack wrote and penciled the pages"

    It then goes on to talk about how it was rejected twice, altered, had parts re-written and the art reformated for graphic novel size. So while yes, (more or less) the art from Armagetto appears in Hunger Dogs on pages 10-18 and 31-46. The story is still very different from what Jack set out to do.
     
  8. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    The original version of On The Road To Armagetto was not the conclusion to the New Gods story. Rather, it was intended to set up the conclusion story that Kirby was planning. Kirby did not do any work on that intended conclusion story, however, because DC rejected the proposed plot. That’s what I mean when I say there’s no unpublished conclusion story. It was never drawn.

    On The Road To Armagetto was expanded and reworked into the story in the Hunger Dogs graphic novel. It was re-inked and the aspect ratio of the pages was altered, but the story itself was not substantially changed.
     
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  9. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    Based on what I know about Kirby, he would be livid that they changed any of his characters! Kirby was from a different generation with different morals, principles and values, I think he would totally object to someone being gay in his Eternals Universe!
    Which goes back to a point I made earlier, this isn't the real Eternals, Kirby's Eternals, it's just a movie with the name!
     
  10. Exotiki

    Exotiki The Future Ain’t What It Use To Be

    Location:
    Canada
    Ok thank you for clarifying. :righton:
     
  11. badfinger54

    badfinger54 Senior Member

    Location:
    Victoria, TX USA
    [​IMG]
    Cleaned up some (by me) from another online image
     
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  12. Spencer R

    Spencer R Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oxford, MS
    Hard to believe that someone who spent his life creating stories about people with secret identities and flamboyant costumes, persecuted as “outsiders,” most notably the X-Men, but pretty much every other superhero as well, would have any animus towards gay people, but whatever floats your boat.
     
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  13. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Kirby was a fiercely liberal Democrat his entire life. He (obviously) wasn't a conservative Christian and I've never read anything which suggested he was a judgmental or moralizing person in the slightest. It seems you're making the unfounded assumption that everyone from his generation had an intolerant view towards gay people, since there's zero other evidence to suggest Kirby had such opinions.

    As to the movie, yeah, you can count on one hand the comic-based films that are truly faithful to the source material. In the case of The Eternals, even the comics published after Kirby left are not particularly faithful to his vision. That's just the way it is. But I suspect the sexuality of one of the characters would be the least of his concerns.
     
  14. Exotiki

    Exotiki The Future Ain’t What It Use To Be

    Location:
    Canada

    (Skip to about 1 hour 8 minutes and 44 seconds)

    I know it’s a little different context so you can decide for yourself, but I don’t think Jack would have minded at all.
     
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  15. Hagstrom

    Hagstrom Please stop calling them vinyls.

    You know nothing of what he would feel.
     
  16. Sneaky Pete

    Sneaky Pete Flat the 5 and That’s No Jive

    Location:
    NYC USA
    I am another comic fan who never fully appreciated Kirby until I "grew up." Steve Dikto and Gil Kane were my favorite artists, even though I also bought all the Thor and Fantastic Four Comics I could get my hands on. As an adult I see the Pop art and Psychedelic art influence in Kirby's work. He was truly of his time, it was like there was an infinite feedback loop between those Fillmore poster artists Kelly, and Griffin, and pop artists Warhol, Roy Lichtenstein et. al. and Jack Kirby. They were all feeding off each other. His work is so graphic, and powerful.
     
  17. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    In the case of Lichtenstein I would say the more appropriate term would be "leeching off" Kirby and other comics artists. But I guess that's a different discussion.
     
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  18. ricks

    ricks Senior Member

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    Yes. Via a "broker" He sold the bulk of what was returned of his original art and after he passed Roz sold as well. He did need it to supplement his income from what I recall Mark Evanier mentioning.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
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  19. Spencer R

    Spencer R Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oxford, MS
    It looks like a single page of Kirby’s original art can now fetch hundreds of thousands of dollars. I hope he got some fraction of that when he sold his pages, but I bet the family wish they had held on to more of it. But you can’t spend money when you’re dead.

    Jack Kirby and Chic Stone Fantastic Four Annual #2 Splash Page 1 | Lot #91029 | Heritage Auctions

    The current prices for original 60s Marvel comics are also jaw-dropping. I had a nice copy of Fantastic Four #60, bought used in the late 70s/early 80s for probably around $5, which seemed like a fortune to me at the time, that got left at home when I went to college and then disappeared, along with the rest of my comic book collection. Common story, I know, but there are currently several copies of that issue on eBay for between $3,000 and $4,000.

    At one point I probably had half of the original Lee/Kirby Fantastic Fours between #50 and #100. Wish I had taken them to college with me.
     
  20. Sneaky Pete

    Sneaky Pete Flat the 5 and That’s No Jive

    Location:
    NYC USA

    Let's just call it changing the context of the work. :)
     
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  21. ricks

    ricks Senior Member

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    In the early 90's comics had a very low values. Covers back then perhaps garnered 1000 at most, 60's (and earlier) covers might have been double that. I'm generalizing of course but Kirby never saw any decent money from it. Those old time dealers well that's a different story...

    The Comic Art "boom" depending on the Artist, title, character started approx 1999-2002 with a huge sublimation at the time of the Iron Man Film in 2008. Sky high now for any vintage remotely decent Marvel art.

    The 60s - mid 80's Marvel comic art market for the most part is a now Rich Persons hobby unless one was lucky enough to get in early enough. Makes sense as given supply is one of a kind does not take all that much demand.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
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  22. Spencer R

    Spencer R Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oxford, MS
    From what I can gather, the Marvel movies have pushed the value of key Marvel 60s issues through the roof.

    While comics were dismissed for decades as trash for kids, it’s pretty obvious from our vantage point today that Jack Kirby was a major American artist, and it’s no shock to me that his original art now changes hands for hundreds of thousands of dollars per page. His original art will doubtless hang on the walls of museums one day, if it doesn’t already. If I could own a page of Kirby original art, I’d certainly treasure it.
     
  23. Exotiki

    Exotiki The Future Ain’t What It Use To Be

    Location:
    Canada
    Yes, Jack’s work has taken its rightful place in a gallery installation.
     
  24. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Transformative work is one thing, but what Lichtenstein did is analogous to recording a really bad cover of someone else's song, and then claiming you wrote the song yourself.
     
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  25. drad dog

    drad dog A Listener

    Location:
    USA
    Kirby was in the business since 1939 or so. He was one of the main movers in the industry not just for drawing, but for keeping the industry going. We know Simon and Kirby pioneeered super hero comics, but they were responsible for other innovations in comics esp when super heroes were cold in the 50s. They invented the Romance Comic, as well as the Youth adventures genre, and there were Monsters of course. He was a Titan bascially for many decades.
     

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