Jake Holmes finally does it - lawsuit over "Dazed & Confused"

Didn't Coldplay have 3 issues of song "borrowing" on their last album? Satriani, Cat Stevens and some quack from Nashville.

Another question is if Page has ever gone after anyone for stealing Zeppelin publishing.

 

Haven't they since changed 1-2 to Robert Johnson? Zeppelin also borrowed In My Time of Dying and the majority of the lyrical content of Custard Pie.

 

A) I think you're being willfully naive. You can truly love music, and still be a savvy business man in terms of how to sell that music. Led Zeppelin, like most all other bands, were business savvy (and, indeed, needed to be): Page and Grant created publishing companies, coordinated their touring of America with clinical precision, and negotiated the biggest advance for a band (at that time) from Atlantic: around $200,000. You simply don't undertake the task of forming a working band and not be consumed with cost-benefit issues on every level. And that starts with the music: what's going to sell? It's interesting to note that Page first envisioned Led Zeppelin as a Pentangle-type outfit, but after seeing Bonham, went the electric route. He also would have recognized the vast gap left by the demise of Cream, and the ability of Led Zeppelin to fully exploit that exploding market (given his touring savvy). Page was perfectly poised to sail the perfect storm: musical genius; touring savvy; financial nous. Bang.

One can be all these things, and still be totally immersed in the music.

B) The blues isn't (just) about 'feeling'. That's just silliness. Sure, blues can be deemed to be a form of collective cultural expression (issuing from black American culture), but it was also a savvy form of pop music at its peak - with everything that entails. Robert Johnson was steeped in Delta traditions, but he also clearly had an eye on the charts - his music is equal parts groaning Son House and urbane Lonnie Johnson. The problem with reducing blues to a mere vehicle for communicating misery is that a) it completely diminishes the artistry and complexity of that music, but, perhaps more importantly, it b) permits absolutely anyone to claim authorship 'if they feel those blues'. That ignores history, artistry and commercial reality. Indeed, the notion of 'the blues' as "feeling" is, to my eyes, more a line perpetuated by savvy record labels intent upon exploiting white interest in black music than any genuine representation of the content, and meaning, of the music itself.

 

Interesting list...

I believe that one was credited to Woody Payne, not Jagger/Richards, originally. Incorrect, but I don't see how Jagger/Richards would have profited from that error.

This one is a good example... exactly the same as the stuff Led Zeppelin did.

This was on Metamorphosis, which was compiled without the participation of the Stones, wasn't it? So that incorrect credit was likely assigned without their knowledge.

Okay, that's a huge stretch. The only similarity between these songs is the phrase "doo lang." Not comparable to the wholesale appropriation of melodies or significant amounts of lyrics we're talking about in this discussion.

I don't hear any significant musical similarity here.

This doesn't count, as it's not a case of intentionally using someone else's work without crediting them. It was unintentional, and when they found out they gave credit.

I'm not familiar enough with the other tunes to comment... I'll have to research a bit more.

 

Good post.

The business savvy of Grant and Page certainly contributed to their success financially and professionally. They are one of the few bands who you never hear about getting ripped off by managers, labels or promoters. Look at what the Stones and The Beatles went through.

Blues wise...I think every blues artist would have killed to have hits on the charts. Yes blues is a lot about feeling but they weren't singing the blues just because they liked it. They were making a living too.

Eddie

 

Are there people still participating in this thread who actually believe Jimmy Page wrote this damn thing? Really??

Please watch the Yardbirds performing 'Dazed and Confused' with Jake Holmes' lyrics intact

And, in your rebuttal, please be specific.

 

I'm a huge Zep fan, my fav band, but yeah come on, without Jake's version there would be no Zeppelin Dazed and Confused. It's pretty clear.

I hate all the theorising and excusing as much as I hate all the over the top accusatory type posts.

You gotta be fair here. His contribution is a large part of the song - indeed you could argue it is the song!

Eddie

 

I don't think there are. The "damn thing" (all the "damn things" in fact) is all over internet, and usually pops up every time someone dare to mention that he/her loves Led Zep or that they are great band.

 

On the original issue of Get Yer Ya Yas Out 'Love in Vain' is credited to ''Trad arr Jagger Richard''.Not sure when that was changed.

 

Lennon took 1 one line from Chuck Berry for Come Together. He said so himself and said that the song remains independent of anything else.
I agree. Don't compare him to Page. Page didn't have one tenth the talent of
Lennon in the songwriting department(he has even less now). Lennon obviously was inspired by what was before. Page, it seems, according to this thread was an outright stealer.

 

re: Satisfaction / Dancing In The Streets

I do hear major similarities, but not to the point of plagiarism.
Just one great song inspiring another great one.

 

This is an interesting article about JPP's song appropriation habits:
http://www.furious.com/perfect/jimmypage.html

 

Page is an interesting case because he really was a magpie (I'll stop short of thief) as well as a great songwriter in his own right. Still, good for Holmes. This is his song, period.

 

I don't see where anyone in this thread (or any past thread on this subject, of which there have been several) has claimed that Page deserves sole writing credits for Led Zeppelin's recording of the song.

 

Certainly "Love In Vain" is correctly attributed. I thought it always was, but I don't have my original NA pressing of LIB on hand to check...

 

Oddly, didn't Hooker himself file a much belated suit agianst ZZ Top over La Grange? I say odd, because the song's "how-how-how" and riff was obviously a homage to him!

 

Was the only legitimate reissue of Holmes' version of "Dazed and Confused" (since its original release on his 1967 Tower LP) on the "Nuggets, Vol. 10" LP issued by Rhino in the 1980s?

 

From the folks at Wikipedia:

There's also a lot of info from the court's decision here: http://cip.law.ucla.edu/cases/case_lacienegazztop.html

 

Credit should have been given in the first place, but much of Blues music can not be traced to any one person really. Page has plenty of money to be fair about this. Zeppelin took this music much further than it would have ever gone, so I think it is funny hearing all these Zeppelin haters carrying on about "stealing" and "ripping off" etc. Most of the music we listen to today is more blatently a "rip off" than what formed some of Zeppelin's over the top rock 'n roll music.

 

The issue here isn't borrowing from blues songs or "carrying on the blues tradition," the issue is Zep recorded someone else's copyrighted work and Page gave himself writing credit. This is indeed stealing.

 

Quoting Homer Simpson "There's Jimmy Page, the greatest thief of American black music who ever walked the earth."

 

+1

 

Yep. Page isn't a dumb guy, so he had to have known that this might come home to roost someday. And now it has. He has lots of cash, and Holmes has decided it's time to pay up.
Write a cheque Jimmy, and admit you were wrong.

 

Yeah, Come Together was only one line, but it is kind of a fair cop, given it is so clearly similar (one would think if a Beatle quoted one of your songs in the 60s it would be a tribute, but there is the business side of show biz). Run For Your Life is not so much. MANY songs are inspired, or derived from other song titles, lines, melodies, whatever, then reprocessed into something new. Either way, there is no real comparison between the Beatles and Zep on this particular issue, LZ is pretty well known for this. But it ialso true they are far from alone in this business.

Hell, the Beatles plagarized themselves (how many songs reference 'love never dies'? Three? And that line was ripped from Buddy Holly!). There there is Isolation/Real Love for John.

 

Jake Holmes was part of the blues tradition?