James Bond in 4K

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Vidiot, May 27, 2016.

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  1. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I'm not sure how many people are aware, but more and more films are now being released for streaming and Blu-ray release in 4K, which is basically 3840x2160 resolution (exactly double HD resolution of 1920x1080).

    All of the classic James Bond films were mastered in both 4K and HD, so the 4K masters are done and sitting on the shelf, waiting to be released. Here's a 12-minute 2004 documentary I just discovered that interviews some of the people who did the 4K restorations at Lowry Digital more than a decade ago:



    I actually worked for Lowry part-time around 2010-2011, and they did some good work on a lot of big and small titles for Disney, Fox, and many other studios. Since that time, the company was taken over by Reliance Entertainment of Mumbai, and most of it was dismantled and shut down. I'm not sure where their technology has wound up these days. It's sobering to look at the millions and millions of dollars worth of equipment in this video -- I think there was about 1 petabyte (1000TB) of storage shown, along with more than 500 G5 Macintosh computers -- that was used as part of the Oscar-award-winning "Lowry Process."
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2016
    Dan C, SandAndGlass, junk and 5 others like this.
  2. artfromtex

    artfromtex Honky Tonkin' Metal-Head

    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    Very cool. Thanks for sharing!
     
  3. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    Technically, 4k has four times the resolution of 1080p (a doubling of pixels horizontally and vertically = 4 times the resolution).
     
  4. Michelle66

    Michelle66 Forum Resident

    Exactly. You'd need to put four 1920 x 1080 screens together to get to 3840 x 2160.
     
  5. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Correct. The numbers are double, but the actual resolution (almost 4K) is roughly four times that of HD.
     
  6. chacha

    chacha Forum Resident

    Location:
    mill valley CA USA
    I saw a bit of Dr. No recently in 4K ar a theatre in SF and was less than thrilled. It looked surprisingly a bit flat and dull. I only saw the last ten minutes though. From Russia With Love was then screened on 35 mm and the difference of realism of motion and emotional involvement was substantial. Night and day for me - I love film.
    YMMV.
     
  7. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I notice in the video that the man in charge says that scanning at 4K, the information they're capturing at that resolution is "actually slightly more" than is contained on the film. Does this mean 4K is the end of the line before increased digital resolution is a waste? So we won't see any higher resolution coming out?
     
  8. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    4k doesn't have much to do with 'emotional involvement' especially when comparing two different films with different transfers! If you didn't like the color, then that's a personal preference and is certainly a result of the grading priorities used in the mastering process (but which is independent of image resolution itself - ie 4k).
     
  9. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    I think it's a matter of diminishing returns. The higher you go above 4k, the better you're able to resolve the grain, which is not a good thing IMO. 4k or slightly more, say 6k, is about the limit of most film stock (depending on type/age/condition). I can probably see 8k happening, but anything more is just silly.
     
  10. chacha

    chacha Forum Resident

    Location:
    mill valley CA USA
    I had no issue with the color. It's more an issue of digital versus film. I'm so used to seeing the Bond films on Blu Ray ( which are great btw). But it was a true delight seeing Russia on film. Even though the print had turned a bit red it was thrilling.
     
  11. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    For a minute, I thought this thread turned into a vinyl vs CD discussion.
     
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  12. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    There's a point of diminishing returns for film and 4K. I'm not convinced there's any real practical information even at 4K for movies made before 1980, and (privately) I know restoration engineers who believe the same thing. On the other hand, 4K is a reasonable limit for most 35mm motion pictures, so it does no harm do digitize at this resolution, and at least everybody will know that this is about as good as it will ever get.
     
  13. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    Until 8K TVs come along... :hide:
     
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  14. Andrew Smith

    Andrew Smith Forum Resident

    Is it true that the current Blu-ray releases of the James Bond movies are sourced from a 4K transfer?
     
  15. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    No, there's no info in film negatives higher than 4K. In fact, prior to 1980 or so, I think there's no high frequencies beyond 2K, but that's just my opinion. There are rare exceptions like spherical 65mm films, including Lawrence of Arabia and My Fair Lady.

    All the restoration work was done at 4K and then downrezzed to 2K. I assume they kept copies of the 4K color-corrected files, but I dunno.
     
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  16. budwhite

    budwhite Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.

    Prior to 1980?
    Was the 35mm film stock or lenses and other equipment weaker compared to today?
     
  17. Rubber65

    Rubber65 Forum Resident

    This may sound stupid here but the James Bond bluray box set is already released. Are they planning on re-releasing the movies on 4k? if so awesome. i just got a 70 inch vizio 4k smart TV.
     
  18. Time Is On My Side

    Time Is On My Side Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, WI
    I'd probably get a couple of my favorites like On Her Majesty's Secret Service or Goldeneye.
     
  19. Time Is On My Side

    Time Is On My Side Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, WI
    I thought I read somewhere that even 8K doesn't match some film like 70mm or IMAX film. I know that's way past what we're talking about here (it says above that Bond films were mostly done on 35mm), but hopefully someone could shed light on this.
     
  20. Bingo Bongo

    Bingo Bongo Music gives me Eargasms

    I see Hulu is offering Bond in 4K now. Cant wait to see a 4KUD Bond box set!
     
  21. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I would assume that would eventually happen. The 4K masters exist, and I know MGM paid for them.

    True 15-perf 70mm Imax is a pretty ridiculous/crazy format with unbelievable resolution, particularly the stuff shot in the last 10-15 years. This goes beyond my "there's no resolution at 4K" argument prior to 1980. When you combine modern film negatives and a massive frame and great lenses, then we're talking many, many millions of pixels. But good or bad, there aren't too many movies being shot on Imax film anymore. And the color is also beyond anything digital can do today.

    Almost all of the Bond films were shot on 35mm -- some flat (spherical lenses), some scope (anamorphic lenses) -- but Skyfall was shot on Alexa digital and I think looked very good, mostly due to DP Roger Deakins. I honestly don't think it matters anymore, for several reasons: 1) the differences between great digital and film are almost nil nowadays; 2) the lighting makes the biggest difference in the world; 3) all VFX and post-production are now done digitally, so the final image winds up as 4K digital (and sometimes just 2K digital). There are good reasons to shoot on film and then do all post in digital, and some films do this, like the upcoming Star Wars VIII.
     
  22. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    What's the picture like?
     
  23. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I only saw pieces of Diamonds Are Forever in 4K, and it looked fine.
     
  24. Heavy Music

    Heavy Music Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Florida
    I think alexpop was questioning the picture quality of the Visio tv?
     
  25. daca

    daca Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    First, MGM, or whoever owns the Bond rights these days, release Bond in 4K and SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

    What is the theoretical resolution limit on a movie shot on this type of film, either with spherical or anamorphic lenses, without it looking like (pardon the technical term) crap on a consumer product? 4k, 8k, 16k, etc.?
     
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