Jazz drummers and classic rock drummers

So my two favorite kinds of music are 50s and 60s jazz and classic rock—so I hear a lot of good drummers. I like all the usual classic rock drummers and their big sound. I like both styles. Each style fits its context.
But I’ve often wondered, could, say, John Bonham or Keith Moon, if they had time to practice the genre, play like Elvin Jones or Tony Williams? Or, vice versa, could Art Blakey play Neil Peart? Stupid, pointless wondering. But my guess is the jazz guys could pull off the rock gig with one hand tied behind their backs. Am I crazy?

 

Interesting question and concept.

I don't know.

I'm not a drummer, but I dig both rock and jazz, and
I'd like to hear some drummers respond to this question.

Related ideas: Does John Bonham have "swing?" I reckon he does. Ten ton swing,
you might say, but I think it's one of the things that distinguishes Led Zeppelin from
other similar hard rock bands, and I really appreciate it.

Second question--is Buddy Rich the link between jazz and rock drummers? He appears
to have the aggressiveness and intensity of some rock players, and I believe I even heard
him say positive things about some rock drummers in an interview (Bonham and Keith
Moon, I think they were.)

Drummers, speak up!

 

Some jazz guys could play rock & roll, and some rock guys can play jazz, and do it well. It really depends on the drummer, and also on the other members or each band. I think it's often about band chemistry rather than a certain member being able to cut it on not. If you get four people who work well together from the start noting will get in the way of the musicality.

 

Produced by Neil Peart (1994)

1. "Dancing Men" – 6:37
   Drums performed by Simon Phillips
2. "Mercy, Mercy, Mercy" – 5:09
   Drums performed by Dave Weckl
3. "Love for Sale" – 4:30
   Drums performed by Steve Gadd
4. "Beulah Witch" – 4:28
   Drums performed by Matt Sorum
5. "Nutville" – 5:09
   Drums performed by Steve Smith
6. "Cotton Tail" – 4:36
   Drums performed by Neil Peart
7. "No Jive" – 5:46
   Drums performed by Manu Katche and Mino Cinelu
8. "Milestones" – 5:03 (composed by Miles Davis, arr. Herbie Phillips)
   Drums performed by Billy Cobham
9. "The Drum Also Waltzes, Pt. 1" – 1:04
   Drums performed by Max Roach
10. "Machine" – 3:46
    Drums performed by Rod Morgenstein
11. "Straight, No Chaser" – 3:39
    Drums performed by Kenny Aronoff
12. "Slow Funk" – 5:33
    Drums performed by Omar Hakim
13. "Shawnee" – 3:06
    Drums performed by Ed Shaughnessy
14. "Drumorello" – 3:11
    Drums performed by Joe Morello
15. "The Drum Also Waltzes, Pt. 2" – :44
    Drums performed by Max Roach
16. "Lingo" – 4:31
    Drums performed by Bill Bruford
17. "Ya Gotta Try" – 3:18
    Drums performed by Marvin "Smitty" Smith
18. "Pick Up the Pieces" – 5:38
    Drums performed by Steve Ferrone

Produced by Neil Peart (1997)

1. "Moment's Notice" – 3:31
   Drums performed by Steve Smith
2. "Basically Blues" – 6:08
   Drums performed by Steve Gadd
3. "Willowcrest" – 4:51
   Drums performed by Bill Bruford
4. "In a Mellow Tone" – 6:17
   Drums performed by Gregg Bissonette
5. "Time Check" – 3:47
   Drums performed by Dave Weckl
6. "Goodbye Yesterday" – 6:15
   Drums performed by Simon Phillips
7. "Groovin' Hard" – 5:29
   Drums performed by David Garibaldi
8. "Big Swing Face" – 4:27
   Drums performed by Kenny Aronoff
9. "Standing up in a Hammock" – 2:54
   Drums performed by Marvin "Smitty" Smith
10. "Take the "A" Train" – 6:11
    Drums performed by Joe Morello
11. "One O'Clock Jump" – 7:46
    Drums performed by Neil Peart
12. "Them There Eyes" – 2:33
    Drums performed by Steve Arnold
13. "Channel One Suite" – 11:34
    Drums performed by Buddy Rich

 

Many classic rock players came from jazz background

 

Charlie straddles both worlds pretty well.

Charlie Watts - DRUMMERWORLD

 

I love a good drummer, jazz or rock, just spare me the extended drum solo; a complete waste of vinyl (IMHO).

 

If a drummer can play both Rock and Jazz, why is the OP assuming the drummer would prefer to play Jazz?

A bit presumptuous, if you ask me.

 

Elvin Jones and Ginger Baker had a drum battle once.

 

Who “won”?

 

I think most jazz drummers could play a competent rock beat, sure. That doesn't mean that Elvin Jones could replicate the genius of Ringo, just as one example. It's not that simple.

 

Could they physically do it? Sure. Would they sound good doing it? Maybe. Depends on the cat and their experience Neal Peart has made a lot of big band records, and frankly, the drumming on them is pretty stiff and unswinging, not very convincing at all. Ginger Baker has made some interesting jazz records, including one with Bill Frisell and Charlie Haden that was pretty good. Charlie Watts is often cited as a cat who can play jazz well, but I don't hear him as a particularly distinguished jazz drummer He just plays a shuffle beat behind jazz players, no one would mistake him for Max Roach or Paul Motian or Tony Williams -- jazz drummers who actually contributed conversationally to the performances -- or even to swinging drummers like Billy Higgins. Jazz guys playing rock? Well, Brian Blade, maybe the best drummer around today, is one of the world's greatest jazz drummers -- check out his playing on the last 10 or 15 years of Wayne Shorter quartet records, and he's toured as the drummer for Joni Mitchell, recorded behind Bob Dylan, etc. My guess is he could do anything. Ches Smith kind of makes music that often has feed in both worlds. He's a drummer who could convincingly go both ways.

Nowadays, I think a lot of players who come up playing jazz also come up playing rock and are comfortable in both idioms from a young age; a lot of rock drummers don't come up playing jazz, even today, and aren't so much comfortable in that idiom, so even if they're jazz fans, they haven't made a life's work of being idiomatic jazz players and it sounds like it when they try to play in the idiom. It's not that they "can't" do it at some kind of physical or psychological level. It's that they've trained themselves for something else and not necessarily for the other way of thinking, playing, interacting.

 

According to this article it was a split decision.

45 Years Ago: Ginger Baker Faces Jazz Legend Elvin Jones in Furious Drum Battle

 

There is an apocryphal story that Keith Moon went to Philly Joe Jones, then living in England, for a drum lesson. Philly Joe asked Keith to demonstrate his drum technique. Philly asked him how much he made for doing that and then told him "I wouldn't want to ruin it for you."

 

Connie Kay played on Van Morrison 's Astral Weeks, Mark Guiliana on Bowie's Blackout, 2 stand-out

 

As someone that took Rock/Jazz/Classical drum lessons when I was a kid, but unfortunately never amounted to more than a dime a dozen drummer, if even that. I was able to still build a deep appreciation for what drums/percussion can bring to the music, especially when one has the proper skills...

As a lover of Rock, Blues, and especially 50's to 70's Jazz, the one genre where drums and especially solos seem to give the most reward at least for me, is Jazz. I guess what I'm trying to say that as an example, take Art Blakey, he was the bandleader on many of his releases and to me, his drums were every bit as important to the music the sax, trumpet, or the piano were. So his solo's would have a heavy impact to the over all sound of a given song. Where in Rock, a drum solo that over stays it's welcome could take away some of the enjoyment...

Just an observation and I do enjoy the heck out of a great Rock drummer, they can surely add wonderful dynamics to the music as well!

Interesting thread, glad I saw it...

 

It's a question based on hypotheticals. The drummers that come to my mind as splitting the difference between jazz and rock are the ones who did the later Steely Dan sessions, Dennis Chambers, Bruford, and Jaime Muir. Tony Williams, Jack DeJohnette, Ronald Shannon Jackson, sure, any of those or the various Weather Report and fusion associated drummers enjoyed playing rock and rhythm and blues. Phillip Wilson was in Paul Butterfied Blues Band, a fusion group Full Moon, did Stax session work, and was in the original Art Ensemble of Chicago. I don't think any of the classic rock drummers would be interested in living the life or playing music on the lines of someone like Milford Graves. It's a totally different kind of thing. Whether they could do it is, again, a hypothetical. Charlie Watts is not my idea of a jazz drummer. He's a rock and roll musician who likes playing jazz.

 

Went to see The Tubes on Saturday night. Prairie Prince is a very good drummer. During his solo, some elements of jazz could be heard. (Not sure how much of others in the audience even noticed, as much of their fanbase is probably people who who used to dress up for "Rocky Horror Picture Show" on multiple occasions.)

Knew of him from The Tubes and association with Todd Rundgren. Decided to research his background more. Lo and behold, many big names in jazz history are his heroes. Not a surprise.

Could he exist solely in that realm? Possibly, but he's followed the right path for the time that he emerged in his career.

 

All I need is Bernard Purdie.

 

Another vote for Brian Blade.

 

He's a rock and roll musician who likes playing jazz.

or is he a jazz drummer who likes rock?

I've been playing most of my life. tony Williams is probably my favorite jazz drummer and I have no doubt he could play rock. on the other hand I don't know if keith moon could play jazz. sure he was great but not all players excel in all styles. same goes for any musician. most of the best rock guitarists can't touch john McLaughlin. at one of my last gigs I had a great compliment that I sounded like a jazz drummer who could play rock.

 

I don't love the rock band he's in, but this guy can do both:

 

Rock drummers with most swing

Are you a pounder or a swinger? (John Bonham or Charlie Watts)*

 

A "classic" rock guy who also happens to be a great jazz drummer is Steve Smith. But not even other jazz drummers can play like Elvin, or Tony Williams. Everyone is unique and has their own way of playing.

If you watch Neil Peart's The Making Of Burning For Buddy DVD, you can see and hear how all these different drummers approach big band jazz. There's at least four hours of footage but I watched it on YouTube over the course of a few days.