Jefferson Airplane/Jefferson Starship/Starship/Hot Tuna/Solo & More: Album-By-Album

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by WilliamWes, May 1, 2019.

  1. Edgard Varese

    Edgard Varese Royale with Cheese

    Location:
    Te Wai Pounamu
    I got Freedom at Point Zero on cassette for my 15th birthday in 1981. I'd heard the hits from both Jefferson iterations on the radio, of course. I also remember reading a chapter about JS (and specifically Craig Chaquico) in a book I had that contained biographies of several rock stars and groups. That would have been about 1977 or so.
     
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  2. ash1

    ash1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    bristol uk
    Very jealous you got to see them....and at the Ambassador Hotel.
    Who'd have thunk it......
     
  3. carlwm

    carlwm Forum Resident

    Location:
    wales
    I borrowed Nuclear Furniture & The KBC Band's album from my local record library some time in the late Eighties. Thought they were both excellent & have worked backwards from there. Crown of Creation is the first great record, I reckon.There are a bunch of gaps still. Never heard any Hot Tuna, never found Earth, etc so I'll be looking forward to people's opinions on these.

    Bit of an odd bod fan inasmuch as my favourite Jefferson Airplane album is the 1989 reunion record and I actually like Starship so it'll be fun to defend my position when we arrive in the late Eighties!

    Going to be away from a computer from a week or so. I'll catch up when I'm back!
     
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  4. Dr-Winston

    Dr-Winston Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dorset, UK
    Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music, believe me, yeah... It's the new dawn...

    Love the Airplane, for me they were the sound of San Francisco (not The Dead) and I jumped onto the Starship and my mind was blown time and time again. I also love Hot Tuna. Generally Jorma and Jack can do no wrong in my book.
    Are you going to include Bodacious D.F.? That is a great album and a wonderful contrast with the Starship journey that Paul was embarking on at the time. I admit that for a while back there Paul & Grace's Starship ramblings sounded quite dated and embarrassing. However, I have embraced them once more and they now sound like a wonderful time capsule of a much simpler and innocent (okay and naive) time.

    I started listening to the Airplane because I had a job in Manchester City Centre in the early 1990's and used to pop into Vinyl Exchange at lunchtime. The Airplane were really not hip at all and the bargain racks were bursting full of Airplane/Starship/Hot Tuna. I gradually worked my way through the entire catalogue paying around 50p or £1 max for pretty much everything you can think of all great pressings in great condition. I spent several months buying the lot week by week and have never looked back.

    I read The Turbulent Flight of Jefferson Airplane by Jeff Tamarkin over Easter and have been on a bit of an Airplane trip over the last few weeks so let me climb aboard this Starship before it takes off.

    Just this week I bought Vol 1-4 of Mick's Picks on Ebay for a song so it seems they are no nearer to being hip than they were 25 years ago. I have only listened to the first one so far but I think it's great, make sure you include them. I kicked myself for not catching the Starship when it flew through the UK. RIP Captain Kantner, they seriously broke the mould when they made Paul.

    Our babes will wander naked through the cities of the universe...the day is on it's way the day is ours!
     
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  5. WilliamWes

    WilliamWes Likes to sing along but he knows not what it means Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    Cool stuff so far from everyone...so let's get into some pre-flight material on the runway. Marty Balin was active in 1962 recording 2 singles as a solo artist and Jorma Kaukonen played folk shows with Janis Joplin from 1962-1964. No releases from the duo. These are rare records so I'll post the videos for them though "You Are the One" is unavailable.

    Marty Balin solo with Challenge Records in 1962
    Marty Balin- I Specialize In Love


    SINGLE: Marty Balin- I Specialize In Love/You Are The One
    This is the earliest recording on a Jefferson Airplane release-it’s Marty Balin after changing his name from Marty Buchwald on a pop song from 1962 that has him in full exuberance. The mediocre song’s orchestra ties it to the past and it doesn’t have the contemporary edge his work with the Airplane would display. Good to have for historical reasons though. It’s on the Jefferson Airplane Loves You box as the first track. “You Are the One” I haven’t been able to track down. Anyone hear the B-side?

    SINGLE: Marty Balin – Nobody But You/You Made Me Fall
    Two more pop ballads from Challenge Records, “Nobody But You” have Balin singing on that same kind of emotional level we hear later from him but there’s some intercepting female backing vocals that date this to the early 60’s. It’s like Balin leading a girl group with strings and a light rhythm section. “You Made Me Fall” sounds like Balin influenced by Buddy Holly again backed by ‘happy’ female vocals but this is closer to rock with a brief generic guitar solo snuck into the middle of all the happiness. Both are love songs, both ‘eh’.
     
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  6. WilliamWes

    WilliamWes Likes to sing along but he knows not what it means Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    Both sides of Marty Balin's second single "Nobody But You"/"You Made Me Fall"
     
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  7. WilliamWes

    WilliamWes Likes to sing along but he knows not what it means Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    So after those singles Balin released he was in the folk quartet The Town Criers for a couple of years. All the Airplane members seemed into folk and not rock at all. Only Slick liked the Rolling Stones a bit but she wasn't too into rock either. So I've only heard this concert once and I jotted down some thoughts.

    The Town Criers - Hellbound Train


    THE TOWN CRIERS – LIVE IN SAN FRANCISCO 1964
    1. Daddy Roll ‘Em
    2. 900 Miles
    3. Virgin Mary
    4. Go Home to the Valley
    5. Hellbound Train
    6. The Lesson
    7. 99 Years to Go
    8. Jubilee

    I have a pretty rare CD of the Town Criers performance – 8 songs about half an hour. It’s basically folk with Marty Balin on string bass and lead vocals, Jan Ellickson on vocals, Larry Vargo on guitar and Bill Collins on banjo and guitar. Marty sings lead on the first 2, a midtempo folk song by Bill Collins “Daddy Roll ‘Em” and “900 Miles” by Larry Vargo-a slower track. “Virgin Mary” has Marty and Jan singing lead, it’s kind of an old fashioned religious song by Balin/Vargo. The Jan-sung “Go Home to the Valley” ‘tells the story of a dying soldier’ according to Balin’s in between comments. She has a Joan Baez trained voice style and is the high vocal on their harmonizing moments. Balin makes a lot of jokes-it’s like half stand up comedy, half folk. A little bit of mountain music is tossed in there too like on the fast “Hellbound Train” featuring a lot of 5-string banjo and harmonies. “The Lesson” is a slow dramatic number with everyone taking a turn on lead vocals followed by full harmonies on “99 Years to Go”, a slower track with claves percussion and finally another joint lead vocal taking turns affair in the jubilant “Jubilee”. A fun show with all the humor and if you like early folk, it satisfies.

    There are a few other Town Criers songs hanging around the world wide web but I haven't heard them.
     
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  8. WilliamWes

    WilliamWes Likes to sing along but he knows not what it means Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    Janis Joplin and Jorma Kaukonen to have one tape circulating on YouTube- it's the "Typewriter Tape" from 1964. It's more of the folk and blues they had been playing since 1962.



    Songlist:
    1. Trouble In Mind
    2. Long Black Train
    3. Kansas City Blues
    4. Hesitation Blues
    5. Nobody Knows When You're Down and Out
    6. Daddy Daddy Daddy

    "Hesitation Blues" would appear much later on Hot Tuna's debut.
     
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  9. Dr-Winston

    Dr-Winston Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dorset, UK
    Two tracks from the 'Typewriter Tapes' appeared on the Janis Box Set 'Hesitation Blues' which was also the opening track on the first Hot Tuna album and 'Trouble In Mind'.
     
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  10. WilliamWes

    WilliamWes Likes to sing along but he knows not what it means Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    Yes, we're covering Bodacious DF -better believe it baby! Nice back story and yes Joplin had those tracks on her boxset. I'll post some comments later about them. I like when boxsets go way back and give some kind of representation of the roots of a musician.
     
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  11. wwaldmanfan

    wwaldmanfan Born In The 50's

    Location:
    NJ
    Jefferson Airplane was one of the first and most influential of the mid-sixties San Francisco hippie bands, even before the Grateful Dead hit the scene. The Airplane were Bill Graham's house band at Winterland and Fillmore West in the earliest days of the psychedelic era.
    I saw them perform a couple of times at outdoor festivals. They were pretty good, but loose, partly because Grace was drinking a bitl by that time.
    The recent MFSL SACD remasters of Surrealistic Pillow and Volunteers are the best-sounding versions of those albums, which previously were not known for good sound quality.
    The first Hot Tuna live album was a revelation to me as a young teenager, and even fifty years later, remains one of my favorite albums of all time. It was my introduction to several of the originators of the style, including Rev. Gary Davis, Leroy Carr, and Jelly Roll Morton. I have seen Hot Tuna and/or Jorma peform solo at least twenty times, and had a personal conversation with Jorma two years ago, which was interesting. I have to say I'm not a big fan of his electric guitar style, but on acoustic blues, he's still about the best there is.
     
  12. jeendicott

    jeendicott Senior Member

  13. mds

    mds Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
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  14. mds

    mds Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    It would be fun to see a family tree and all the splinter groups along with the groups that people came from such as Freiberg being in QSMS prior to joining the Starship as an example. It would also be fun to see the movements of Spencer Dryden and Skip Spence.
     
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  15. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    I got into Jefferson Airplane in the early 90s, I was in middle school and in music class we were doing reports on music history and mine was on the SF sound. The Grateful Dead were hugely popular at the time, but the other SF groups were basically unknown, with the Airplane being the only other one that anyone had heard of. Also we used to watch Viet Nam movies all the time, and Platoon was one of our favorites, and White Rabbit plays an important part in that movie. As a kid I had Surrealistic Pillow, and Bless its Pointed Little Head, then a few years later I got 2400 Fulton St, and since then most of the other JA albums, as well as Hot Tuna and the early 70s Kanter/Slick/etc.

    So with that out of the way, I found this interview with Jorma which mostly talks about his early days and playing with Janis:

    Gary James' Interview With Jorma Kaukonen Of Jefferson Airplane

    Q - In 1962, you moved to San Francisco and were giving guitar lessons.
    A - Right. That is correct.

    Q - At that time you had no ambition to join or form a band.
    A - It never crossed my mind. That puts it pretty succinctly. I had no ambition to join a band.

    Q - Did you think you were going to make a living being a teacher then?
    A - Well, I was also gigging a lot too, but I was making a nice living being a teacher. I was just talking to somebody yesterday, I continued to teach through the first year of Jefferson Airplane and I made more money teaching that I did with the band.

    Q - That would've been what year?
    A - ' 65.

    Q - You came up during a time when everything was new.
    A - Right.

    [...]

    Q - You were on friendly terms with the other bands?
    A - Oh, sure. Absolutely. What happened was, San Francisco in the early '60s, while it was still Folk and Jazz, it was a small community. Everybody knew each other. Everybody was very friendly and very supportive. Nobody was in the "music business" yet. We all played music and supported ourselves, but the industry thing hadn't reared its head and so everybody was really friendly.

    Q - Would someone like Jerry Garcia come out to watch your band and then you'd go out to see his band?
    A - Absolutely.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
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  16. WilliamWes

    WilliamWes Likes to sing along but he knows not what it means Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
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  17. PTgraphics

    PTgraphics Senior Member

    Big fan of Jefferson Starship and Starship.
     
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  18. Brian Doherty

    Brian Doherty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    The "how i got into them" post---I cannot be sure of every step of this, but as a 14 year old just beginning my life as a record accumulator, and reading a lot of the history books and record guides and books about the 60s and all that JA became I think the first band i got into heavily with NO influence or guidance from my older brother who introduced me to the beatles, who, kinks, doors etc who were my first wave of "favorite bands"----BAXTER was first one i picked up, a 5.98 "BEST BUY" non gatefold pressing, this would be 1982 probably, at the mall .... and it sounded like everything my 14 year old mind thought he gathered about what was cool about the 60s---for most of my teen years they and the doors were the only 'hippie' bands i adored, and i got over the doors pretty quick. Was enough of a Kantner obsessive within a year that i was eagerly hunting down PLANET EARTH ROCK N ROLL ORCHESTRA month of release, was a little hard to find around jacksonville fla.....
     
  19. Dr-Winston

    Dr-Winston Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dorset, UK
    Been listening to the pre-Airplane material last night and this morning.

    Currently listening to The Town Criers 'Live In San Francisco'. I like this there is great energy in the performance. I have some affection for these pre-Beatles American folk groups. With a little imagination I could envisage some of this material working in the context of early Airplane especially the vocal blend, the harmonies. That is what these beatnik folkies kept when they cast aside their acoustic guitars and picked up Rickenbackers. It's hard to believe that the US was gripped by a Hootenanny craze whilst the UK was digging beat music. When the two worlds finally collided we got The Byrds and then Jefferson Airplane. This CD is well recorded in stereo, they must have had some potential deal on the table surely to have a stereo recording device available? I guess those things would not have been very portable. Even the early Airplane live recordings are mono for the most part. Marty's vocal is a little hot although I think that is his mic technique more than anything. I also think the tape is running a little fast. The songs sound fine but Marty seems a little squeaky when he does his links. With that caveat I think this is well worth picking up if you want to hear some Airplane before take off.

    I Specialize In Love is great, a real period piece and Marty's vocal style is unmistakable. I am familiar with this from the Loves You box and I think it is a great addition to that set. The second single was not familiar to me and although I enjoyed listening to it I can see why the producers of the box went for Specialize. Again I can imagine the early Airplane taking on the verses although the chorus is a little trite.

    Sadly Jorma's recordings with Janis fall into the historically interesting but not really something that bears repeated listening category primarily due to the low-fi demo nature of the recordings. At the start Jorma says that the typewriter won't bother them. However, it really does get in the way of my enjoyment. Clearly they never intended anybody to hear the tape or they would have told Margareta to shut the ___! Some people have suggested that the typewriter may have been employed as a percussion instrument. I think they had some of the brown acid. I also have recordings of Janis & Jorma with Steve Mann playing live at the Folk Theater in San Jose but these are sadly even worse than the typewriter tape.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  20. WilliamWes

    WilliamWes Likes to sing along but he knows not what it means Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    Any opinions on the pre-flight material from Marty Balin or Jorma Kaukonen?
    Thanks for posting the interview. I totally forgot they got together. Balin and Kaukonen put their time in for sure.
    Yes, if anyone would like to add comments about any additional stuff, we'll just add it in at the appropriate times.
     
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  21. WilliamWes

    WilliamWes Likes to sing along but he knows not what it means Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    The Typewriter Tape from summer 1964…

    So I tried out Janis Joplin with Jorma Kaukonen and it’s basically an all-blues set with Janis sounding familiar, not quite as good as later but there’s a seed there ready to be developed further. Jorma’s guitar is very bass-y because of the poor recording – it was recorded at home with someone typing in the background. Good for the completist but the sound could be better and it’s not really fit for an official release. It’s a nice combo though and worth the listen one time.

    Jorma went solo and played acoustic shows of folk and blues sometimes he’d get together with Pigpen, later in The Grateful Dead.

    In 1965 Signe Anderson and Skip Spence got together at Spence’s home for some recordings like “Lazy River” involving Hoagy Carmichael, “Something Else” by Eddie Cochran, “Satisfaction” by The Rolling Stones and “Tobacco Road” made famous by Lou Rawls.

    Also in 1965, Marty Balin and Paul Kantner meet and build the airplane. Jorma was hired around this time. As a play on Blind Lemon Jefferson Airplane that Jorma’s friend used to call him, the band became Jefferson Airplane. I think Marty wanted a female presence like he had in The Town Criers so he hired Signe Anderson. Here are the early lineups:


    Jefferson Airplane Early Lineups

    Marty Balin – vocals
    Paul Kantner – rhythm guitar/vocals
    Signe Anderson - vocals
    Bob Harvey – bass
    Jorma Kaukonen – lead guitar
    Jerry Peloquin – drums


    ---

    Skip Spence (later of Moby Grape and solo of course) replaces Jerry Peloquin on drums. Then Bob Harvey is replaced by Jack Casady brought in by Jorma. So the lineup for recording the debut album is set.

    1965 also saw the beginning of The Great Society. Here’s the lineup:

    Grace Slick: vocals
    David Miner: rhythm guitar/vocals
    Darby Slick – lead guitar
    Jerry Slick (Grace’s husband) – drums
    Peter van Gelder – bass/saxophone (on the live selections)
    Bard Dupont – bass (on the studio selections)


    ---

    Oscar Daniels – replaced David Miner towards the end
    Jennie Piersol – was briefly a second female vocalist early on

    So the staff, crew and pilots are in place. Tonight will be the first flight. We will depart and travel towards many lands new and old. Any body have any additional luggage they want to carry on about any of the pre-flight recordings before we get set for take off?
     
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  22. WilliamWes

    WilliamWes Likes to sing along but he knows not what it means Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    Yes, good you took the time to hear these and comment. I totally agree with everything. Joplin is totally recognizable but the guitar work is basic and extra bass-y like how those old home recorders could get back then. It's not highly listenable.

    I do think there was plenty of great folk music that had lyrics with more weight than a lot of the beat items which seemed more for younger fans' entertainment but let's face it - there was a lack of excitement in folk and sometimes you want a lesson and a dance. Combining folk and rock could provide both mind and body with something to enjoy.
     
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  23. WilliamWes

    WilliamWes Likes to sing along but he knows not what it means Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    All aboard. We will start tonight with just the debut singles of both bands Jefferson Airplane and The Great Society. Both were released in February 1966. While The Great Society's single was the only single of their career - later reissued a couple of times, talk about a one-hit wonder. Only one single and it contains one of rock's all-time greatest songs. Meanwhile, Jefferson Airplane would be the band that was the more famous but it took another 6 months for the debut album to be released hence why I'm posting the first releases ever separately from everything else.

    JEFFERSON AIRPLANE - "IT'S NO SECRET"/"RUNNIN' ROUND THIS WORLD" (February, 1966)


    [​IMG]

    THE GREAT SOCIETY - "SOMEONE TO LOVE"/"FREE ADVICE" (February, 1966)
    [​IMG]
     
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  24. WilliamWes

    WilliamWes Likes to sing along but he knows not what it means Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    The Great Society - Someone to Love
     
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  25. Dr-Winston

    Dr-Winston Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dorset, UK
    Wow February 1966. talk about taking flight.

    The first minute of It's No Secret sounds like a groovier version of Marty's solo singles. Marty got hip. After that Signe comes in we definitely hear the folk influences, very much like The Town Criers got hip. Then around 1 1/2 minutes in the 'As I Get Older The Years They Get Heavy For You..' section kicks in and all of a sudden this sounds like something completely different. This is where Marty transcends his previous material. The lyrics are complex and (in the parlance of the time) heavy. By the time we get back to the second chorus we're listening to the sound of the SF ballrooms in the early days. A great time capsule. Tommy Oliver did a pretty decent job capturing the early Airplane on the a-side. I'm listening to the mono single mix and it sounds great. The mono single of mix of Runnin' Round This World is less satisfying. There is a little too much reverb being deployed and as a consequence it is a little muddy and distant sounding It seems this was a common problem at RCA. Producers seemed to think that more reverb was more groovy. However, what a great slice of early Airplane. 'The Nights I've Spent With You Have Been Fantastic Trips...' again great lyrics, the first Balin/Kantner composition to be released and very much of the time. Climb aboard baby let's go..
    Bizarrely RCA would freak out about that line a few months later and pull the track from 'Takes Off'. I guess they managed to sneak it under the radar here.

    I had not realised that 'Someone To Love' was released during the same month as 'It's No Secret'. I only have a stereo mix on 'Born To Be Burned', would like to hear the mono mix does anybody know if it has been reissued anywhere? I enjoy this but don't really get it when people say they prefer this version to the Airplane remake of the following year. It is already a great tune no doubt about that and Grace already has presence, she delivers the goods. However the backing track sounds a little like a demo when compared to the hit version. The guitar solo is a missed opportunity, Jorma could have really helped them out here in my opinion. 'Free Advice' has some period charm. People have compared the guitar sound to The Velvet Underground and I can hear that. Grace does some nice vocalising which adds to the freak credentials of the track. This is more 'jazz' than the Airplane were doing at the same point. Both tracks are essential in an Airplane collection but I can hear why their recording career didn't take off in the same way that Marty and his cohorts did
     

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