Harbeth is 1.5 x speaker plane (?) The 83 is ~ 1.1, which seemed too close, but seems to work. My toe is small, especially considering how close, ~12 deg. Crosses 9' behind me. looking at the pic if you assume inside spacing and mid depth close to 1.4
definitely more midrange presence with that toe angle. have you tried grilles off for even more presence? works well if your amp is overtly smooth.
I've not tried it for a few reasons: Wife (kidding), I prefer grills on re:appearance Harbeth recommends on I've seen measurements, no real magnitude difference and it seems to smooth them a bit. I may try it for 'science'! I did clean them recently.
I've tweaked this room to death at this point but I believe I'm about near perfect now. Adjustments made for the 1/5 room rule and sub aimed directly at opposite corner. I have the ATS bass traps on order - all four units should arrive by Dec. 12. Can't wait to hear the improvement those will make to the room!
That doesn't necessarily avoid nulls and modes. You have multiple nulls and modes along each of the three axis in any rectangular room. And then add all the little room irregularities and you have a pretty complex pattern in three dimensions. 1/3, 1/5, 1/7 may or may not get you away from nulls and modes. And again, it's not so much about avoiding the nulls and modes with the speakers as it is with the listener position. Speaker placement is more about reflection points. The LF pressure happens no matter where you place your speakers.
We'll have to disagree about avoiding the nulls and nodes. The reason to use the odd multiples is that it avoids many of the nodes - they tend to stack up on the even multiples. The sitting position is certainly important too - again in my opinion avoiding nulls and nodes. I would agree that reflection points are also important, but I consider it an and not an or.
modes and nulls are a function of room geometry. Wavelengths from 20hz -200hz (bass) don't vary with room proportions. They are set lengths. 1/7 of the way into one room may avoid one mode or null but put you dead center in another null or mode. 20hz-200hz is a continuous sweep. All rooms are going to have nulls and modes based on actual distances between boundaries. the distance from a room boundary, at 1/5 and 1/7 and so on will just manifest nulls and modes at different frequencies.
Everything you said I agree with. But if you do the math, there are fewer nodes on odd multiples because they avoid the stacking that occurs on even ones, that's why that placement approach works.
Yeah. But in a 3D space it’s always much more complicated. But what is more significant is speaker position doesn’t change the quantity of LF energy that it pressurizes the room with. So if the listener position is in a null or a peak moving the speakers won’t fix that. and I still say that you really can’t successfully play dodge mode/null in a listening room. Bass management needs bass absorption to be done well. You definitely can’t dodge room reverb or 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd order reflections.
I am intrigued by the Vandersteen approach and may tinker with my speaker placement this weekend. When using this approach, what if you have an irregular L-shaped room? My system is placed off-center on a 24 foot wall so the speakers are mostly directed down the length of the L which is 42 feet. The shorter wall is 21 feet long with the top of the base of the L 10.5 feet long. I have bass traps in each corner of the 24 foot placement wall. Current positioning has the speakers 8'6" from the short 21' side wall, and 6'2" off the long 42 foot wall.
Yes, that is it exactly. The only slight modification is that on the 10.5' wall there is a bar area with cabinets above it. Bar extends maybe 24" out into the room along that wall. So to the backsplash is 21 feet, to the bottom cabinets more like 19 '. Dual subs on the outside of each speaker.
Where do I send the invoice? Fits the 0.83, Focal and Vandy method, all 3 very close. It also puts you into ~ 1/3 x 42' which determines modes. The short rear wall is still 7-8 feet behind you, should not be an issue. edit: Added subs Toe in speakers 12 deg, intersect at corner of L, ~9' behind you. Sub R as you face it, none, L 15 deg Listen and adjust Sonus Faber/ Monitor Audio top Revel bottom
THANKS! Below is answer to your question above - LP and how far from back wall. Looks like I need to bring the listening position in a couple of feet - I think it feel cramped but will give it a try - with sonus fabers 8' from each wall and 8 feet between. Rear wall placement is currently close at 3'1". Used a laser measurement device and set speakers 8'10" apart measured at the tweeter, 10'7" to my ears with toe in angle where speakers cross just behind my head. The speaker cones are 3"1" from the back wall and are well clear of side walls. BASED on this with laser, I need to reshoot room dimensions since speaker width and current placement from side walls does not equal 24. I measured with a tape and appear to be off by 8".
Whn I set up the 83 I thought the same, 2 close, but sounds great. Speakers 8.3 Ear 10 I estimated the SF height from center of the 2 woofers to floor at 20". Can you measure it? The width only gives 2 realistic options for the Vandy method 288/3 = 96, 8' to sidewall, speakers 8' apart 288/5 = 58, 4.8', speakers 14.3', too far You are close as is, within a few inches imo is good to go.
sounds pretty darn good where I have them, sometimes a little bass heavy when cranking Rage Against the Machine but most anything would be bass heavy with Rage.
If you can play your air guitar like Robert Fripp, you should be okay with sound consistency in your room.
I have become interested in some room treatments for my newly built soundproofed music room. I was wondering if anybody who knows a lot more about this could give me some casual advice on the placement of a couple of sound absorbers I purchased that I want to place on the first reflection points. I used the calculator posted above, in inches, and I am posting the results and measurements in inches to this post, as well as two photos. One of my main causes for the question is that when I am facing my speakers, to the right, there's no real wall for approximately 78 inches from the back wall to the corner of the wall where the Pearl Jam poster is hanging. My second cause for question is that I have two seating positions, not one. The calculator used only allows for one seating positions. Does this dramatically change the calculation here? I am attaching the screen capture of my calculation on the website, as well as two photos of the room. The red dots are approximately where the calculation states the first reflection points are. Given your expertise in these calculations, is there a place I should be putting them in relation to the two seats or the first reflection points indicated? I am thinking about putting one on the left where the red dot is (37 inches from the back wall), and possibly one where the PJ poster is now, essentially. Does this make sense to do? Any assistance in this is greatly appreciate in advance! I'm sorry but I can't get the direct photo linking to work. I would appreciate if anybody could help with the photos being at this link: iCloud
if no wall, no reflection. Run the calculator one for each location or make the listening position between the chairs. Edit, I see the seating position is fixed. I would think your calc is good since the panels are bigger than the area shown.
So the boss doesn't like the LP centered. I can post a pic to show why, but basically the 21' wall is where some of the vinyl is stored, has a big painting on the wall and doorway into a workout room about 14' down the wall. She thinks it is too cramped on that side with the current furniture.
One thing I've learned in the last 5 decades of audiophilia, forget the speaker measurements and try them in every way possible. It's the only way to know for sure.
My Revel M22 are not subject to any exact placement for better results. And two different rooms did not make any difference either. Wider space just made the soundstage a little wider.
Some speakers are not subject to sonic gains with changes in placement. Kind of a good thing I think.
