Jimi Hendrix "Songs For Groovy Children" 5CD Box Set of '70 Fillmore East Concerts Due Nov. 22, 2019

Hey guys, why do we keep referring to him as ‘Gary’?
It’s Gerry Stickells!

 

Great take on the shows, really interesting way to look at it. It also explains why he stitched together Power of Soul out of a great lengthy take into roughly the same as the others. It was the best performance, it was just a little long.

 

Evolvist's analysis above is really interesting reading, thanks a lot!
Just one question: The main theory behind this ''mind-reading'' seems to be that Jimi was not going to or not able to edit released versions out of multiple live takes. Is there any support to this theory, or is it just Evolvist's own? As we all know, Jimi was a wizard in studio technology, so editing and compiling should be no problem to him.

 

It has nothing to do with knowing you can edit or not.

It has everything to do with that feeling you get as a musician, an actor, or any type of performer when you know you've nailed it...or, at least you're pretty sure you nailed it. When playing with other musicians, when anyone screws up, often it's automatic that you know you don't have a take, especially when it comes to tuning issues, or long passages of screw ups.

Over a two-night stand like the Fillmore East gigs, you're looking to collect enough songs that you feel good about, and of course that includes multiple takes, because you might not have gotten a good feeling on previous take, so you want another crack at it. It's about individual songs, but it's also about the complete body of work over two nights. Also, it's not like you're standing on stage thinking about edits when you're trying to play your ass off. Moreover, you don't want to have to edit. You'd much rather pull off a complete take. That's all the musician knows in the moment, and based on patterns I've merely laid out what I think are reasonable presumptions.

So the theory is based upon patterns I saw in these Fillmore shows, but also other Hendrix shows, but essentially if a pissant musician like myself has experienced something similar, how much more a guitar god like Jimi Hendrix when it comes to quality control, the exciting feeling that you get inside when you think you have a good take, and basic human psychology.

Or, in other words if you're writing a book about Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, there will come a point, and early on, too, where you'll begin making reasonable assumptions, otherwise you're turning in a 100 pg book and your publisher won't be happy when they're expecting 35o pgs. Always the reader is left to make up their own minds what to keep and what to discard.

 

Hey, thanks for the new word ''pissant'', I had to google that!

 

Editing is not exactly how Jimi worked though, not in the studio either. He was usually aiming for a solid, complete take instead of editing pieces together. There are circulating studio outtakes where he leads the band though take after take of a song. Come On (Part 1) and Voodoo Child (Slight Return) and Gypsy Eyes from Electric Ladyland are single takes that took many tries to nail down. Same with the material for his fourth album, take after take after take...
So I would agree with @EVOLVIST that Jimi's enthusiasm vaned slightly during some Fillmore performances when there was a big mistake or tuning problems.

 

There's also a spot when he and Billy lose each other totally in the unedited version.

 

I'm trying to understand how a comparatively weak song like We Got To Live Together was chosen for the BOG album at the expense of songs like the excellent take of Lover Man (1st Show), Bleeding Heart or Ezy Rider? Was it just about trying to save these songs for a future studio release?

 

Partially that, part "Let's make it good, but not TOO good", and part "Thanks Buddy, here's some more publishing royalties."

 

Yeah, and that's Billy's fault that time. He didn't make many mistakes. That's a rare one.

 

"We Gotta Live Together" reminds me of Chicago of the same era. I swear Kath and crew could of knocked this tune out of the park 1969, 1970. Really scorched it into a bonifide rock anthem. Just sayin..

 

I'm sure you've read the same quotes where Jimi mentions Terry Kath and the horn section of CTA. I watched the documentary on him I believe on HBO a few years ago.

 

I think Jimi played another mystery song not mentioned by Tony Brown during the fourth show. I notice that Jimi ends Stone Free the way he would end Ezy rider. I always thought Jimi did this on purpose.

But what if Experience Hendrix edited it this way?

I speculate that Stone Free had a very messy or out of tune ending and that Jimi also played Ezy Rider during the fourth show. But Ezy Rider was also very messy or out of tune, but the ending was okay. They decided to stitch the ending of Ezy Rider to the ending of Stone Free.

Voilà!

EDIT: Jimi also ends Stone Free with the ending of Ezy Rider during the second show.

 

Don't buy it . That was typical of Jimi in this era, combining riffs from different songs.

 

I'm getting impatient. One of us should contact Eddie Kramer or Janie Hendrix. I could send an email myself but I tend to be callous. I propose a draft to you all:

"Dear Eddie Kramer. It is an honour to send an email to you, for you have been a good friend to Jimi Hendrix, and you had the honour to work with him closely on the music which has inspired and moved so many people. We all miss him dearly. I have listened to Songs For Groovy Children. I like it a lot. But there are rumours that some songs played during the third and fourth set are missing on this 5-cd set. Is this true? Many fans would like to know the full set lists in the right order. Greetings, DoctorGero"

Make some amendments if you like.

 

Interesting analysis. Sounds very likely to me.

 

That appears to have been Jimi's mindset at the time. He allegedly did not want to give Chalpin his best work (some look at the inclusion of the loose Who Knows with the broken string section and the aforementioned edit of We Gotta Live Together as confirmation), yet Hendrix did release three standout tracks on the LP (Machine Gun, Power to Love, Message to Love). While some assert Hendrix wanted to save certain tracks for his next project (such as Izabella and Earth Blues), the argument can also be made that some of his more intriguing originals were not ready (such as Stepping Stone and Ezy Ryder). It was an interesting set of circumstances, but regardless of how he came to the final track listing, it clearly was a compromise.

 

I believe he wanted to make a good album, but mostly he was trying to keep his best material for his own album.

Yes, he gave some great stuff out on the Gypsys album, but I guess those were just unavoidable sacrifices. People usually agree that Machine Gun was nailed so well Hendrix did not hope to make it any better in the studio. He stopped playing Power of Soul in 1970, did he not? Who Knows was played just twice during those four shows and forgotten after the project. This makes Message of Love the only case of song Hendrix contiuned to play live as well as in the studio. (And Buddy Miles got his share by the way too.)

 

Seems to me after one of the songs in the late show (can't remember which one) I hear the tunings of Burning Desire but then it cuts and goes to the next song.

 

He only tried "Power of Soul once more, 09-04-1970 Berlin with poor results.

 

On that topic, I'm embarrassed to say that I only just now noticed that Hendrix wove "Cherokee Mist" into the take of "Stone Free" on 12-31-69, second set.

 

He plays one of the BD riffs between songs, but that doesn't mean something is missing.
We're well off into conspiracy land now in this thread, wild guesses and theories. Instead of enjoying a really rockin box set.

 

No it doesn't mean he actually played BD but we have Tony saying there was a BD played during the late show. Just another point of information and initial tunings of a song frequently lead to the entire song being played (not always). Not a conspiracy.

 

Not a conspiracy but endless speculation based on what the deceased Tony Brown who sometimes had a real problem with factual accuracy might have seem or heard decades ago. We're not going to get any further because Tony is dead and Experience Hendrix are not speaking, so it seems futile to obsess about what we might be bereaved of instead of enjoying what we have. But hey, maybe that's just me who actually bought the box set and am enjoying it.

Also, there's no musical term called "initial tunings".

 

I just sent this message to Eddie Kramer via the contact form on his website:

”Hi, Eddie Kramer

I have a question.

I enjoyed Songs For Groovy Children.

I wonder if all songs of the third show and fourth show of the Band Of Gypsys have been published on this 5-cd set, and if the order in which songs were played was altered.

Kees de Lange has heard from Tony Brown who has heard the master tapes that also Hear My Train was played right before Earth Blues during the third set, and that during the fourth set the band also played Izabella (right before Machine Gun) and then after Machine Gun in this order: Foxy Lady, I got to see you (Steal Away) and Burning Desire before playing Voodoo Child. However he makes no mention of Burning Desire of the third show and Lover Man of the fourth show.

Also the order of songs of the fourth show is different. Tony Brown has Power of Soul and Changes switched around and he places Earth Blues before Izabella.

Are the rumours true? Many fans are dying to know. And if true, are there other mystery songs played during the Band of Gypsys (third and fourth) shows which are not mentioned by Tony Brown or not present on the 5-cd set?

Thanks in advance. It is an honour to send an email to somebody who knew Jimi Hendrix so closely.

Greetings, ...”