Jimi Hendrix "Songs For Groovy Children" 5CD Box Set of '70 Fillmore East Concerts Due Nov. 22, 2019

Actually, Jeffrey demanded that "Dolly Dagger" and "Room Full of Mirrors" be withheld from Cry Of Love to make the next album stronger, just as "Izabella" and Stepping Stone" were withheld from Rainbow Bridge for the third posthumous release.

 

I have so many, including a Rubber Ducky LA Forum 1970 on vinyl. I have a lot of studio outtakes, as well. It seems a rather large percentage of Hendrix made it to tape between 1965 and 1970.

 

Since we're talking about a single 80-minute CD there are time restrictions. But if this wasn't an issue, I'd go with "Are You Experienced?" from Winterland.

 

I don't think the Winter Peace show was multitracked. Note sure if the drum mics offer any evidence. Jimi MSG 1970 had a single mic while all the 12/31 & 1/1 shows have 2 Jimi vocal mics taped together.

Plus the rumours of Mike J spiking Jimi's drink on purpose.

Mitch did this May 1969

BOG mixing sessions: January 14/15/19/21, February 2/5/14/15/16/17

The bolded dates were the only dates that Jimi didn't do another recording studio session that day. I think he lost the studio tan when he ignored the album for an 8 day stretch, then another 8 day stretch.

Don't underestimate the amount of loyalty that Jimi had for Mitchell/Cox on a friendship level and vice versa.

 

Exactly the track i was thinking about! Great first track for a live collection.

 

I love the Tax Free from the Douglas Winterland CD.

 

A bit off topic, but Hendrix obsessive and guitarist extraordinaire Eric Johnson does a terrific live version of AYE, especially his simulation of the backwards guitar solo.

 

Very impressive. Do not know him at all.

 

I like his Love or Confusion even more:

 

I LOVE BETTY DAVIS!!

If the MSG Winter Festival show was videoed, wouldn't there at least been a stereo SBD for the camera? And I've never understood why Jeffrey would spike Jimi's drink for such a high profile gig with a camera on site.

And the drum mics would've been for the PA - MSG is a big room, and even though Buddy Miles was a heavy hitter, he would've still been mic'ed for the PA

 

No doubt about. Jimi also really liked Mitch’s playing. He had a chemistry with Mitch.

 

I've watched this video several times. Hendrix should have played more on her shows, also songs like Little Wing and Bold as Love, for example. Hendrix chose his setlist very badly, always the same things, he should have varied a few more times. I wonder how wonderful it would be if he had put things like Little Wing and Are You Experienced on his Woodstock setlist.

 

Eric nails Bold as Love

 

A back on topic post I think. The 2 Stone Frees on this set are monsters! It is also so awesome to hear the 12/31 Late show version with such an improvement in quality compared to collectors recordings! To me the Machine Guns (all four of them) and the Stone Frees are the most major highlights of the set. Between the upgrade in sound and the stuff we either never had at all or only in lesser sound quality this is a fantastic release! Twinged with a bit of disappointment due to the missing tracks and edits. They were so close to making this a perfect release in my eyes. None the less even if not perfect this is still overall a great release.

 

Neatly destroys the myth that Mitch couldn't play funk (it was running through all the Experience recordings anyway).

"Buddy is more of a rock drummer. Mitch is more of a classic drummer - more of a funky, R&B type drummer".
Jimi in Melody Maker - December 1969

 

Tue vinyl box set sold in Europe is the same sold in USA :
mastered Bernie Grundman, pressed on 180-gram LPs at Quality Record Pressings?

 

I dunno, funk drummers usually don't play with that much syncopation. This whole discussion depends on what one classifies as a funk drummer. Mitch did a great job on the Betty sessions though.

 

While Buddy Miles was heavily influenced by soul/R&B, his work with the Gypsys and his solo albums from 1970-1972 was funk playing. Many funk drummers have their roots in soul/R&B and jazz/Afro-Cuban music. Just like how many rock drummers, like Mitch Mitchell had their roots in jazz and blues. Also, just because Buddy wasn’t playing funk prior to his tenure with the Gypsys and his solo albums in ‘70 and on, doesn’t mean he hadn’t studied the genre. In addition, funk was really undergoing a revolution in 1968-1972. The genre was really coming into its own during these years. Buddy was one of drummers who participated in that revolution, and helped to define the sound for funk drumming. His two biggest drum idols are legendary in the world of funk drumming, and just in the general world of drums.

Along with countless other funk drummers, Buddy was an enormous fan of Bernard Purdie. Buddy most certainly was listening to Purdie’s Soul Drums (1968) album, which is a funk album. Many funk drummers around the time cite Soul Drums as a major influence on their playing, for both the sound/mic set up and for the grooves found on the LP. In addition, Buddy usually could be seen around this period with his smaller rack tom on the right side and his larger rack tom on the left side (as seen on the cover of his Them Changes album, and in pictures of the Gypsys at the Fillmore). This most likely is an influence from Bernard Purdie, who set his kit up this way.

Another drummer who had a prominent influence on Buddy was Al Jackson Jr., who was nicknamed “The Human Timekeeper.” Jackson was the drummer for Booker T. & the MGs. His work can be heard on nearly everything Stax records was releasing in the ‘60s. He’s a great example of a professional drummer, who can lay down simple beats, such as the money beat, but can really make it sound amazing. He was a drummer who wouldn’t branch out too much with elaborate fills. Instead, he focused on creating a groove that not only felt great, but also capable of still propelling the tune. Jackson’s feel was out of this world, and that’s due to his knowledge of pocket, and from how much time he put into figuring out how to get the best sound out of his kit. An album that showcases Jackson’s feel and sense of groove is Melting Pot (1971) by Booker T. & the MGs. A lot of the grooves on the album aren’t as easy as they sound. Session drummer, Jim Keltner, says Jackson is extremely sneaky. You’ll listen to him playing, and say to yourself, “Yeah, I know what he’s doing.” Then upon several listens later, you figure out that you had the groove wrong. It takes time to process Jackson’s genius. From listening to Jackson and Purdie, one can gain a tremendous amount of insight into how Buddy developed his own style.

With this being said, Buddy Miles was using standard funk grooves and fills with the Gypsys and on his own solo records. An example is Buddy was incorporating fills that were more right foot oriented- during “Foxy Lady” 12/31/69 Second Show at 4:42 Buddy incorporates a measure long, 16th note bass drum fill. Many of Buddy’s fills focus on build tension and release tension tactics, which is a standard sort of fill in funk. Mitch’s style involved more exploring different avenues by going in and out of different patterns, and playing more frequent fills that revolved around fast triplets.

Keep in mind, terms like “funky” and “funkier” are used very loosely. These terms can be used to describe a variety of things. Example: people can call a song “funky,” but that doesn’t necessarily mean the song is actually a funk song. There are a number of songs that are funky, yet they are not funk songs. All funk songs are funky. But not all funky songs are funk.

I’d have to look at the context of what Jimi was specifically asked when he said Mitch was “funkier” than Buddy. But I’m almost 100% positive that when Jimi said that, he meant that Mitch’s style gelled better with his (Jimi’s) playing, than Buddy’s did. And I’d have to agree with Jimi. I prefer Mitch’s style more (I say this with “Valleys of Neptune,” “Machine Gun” live at Berkeley, “If 6 was 9.” and “Voodoo Chile” in mind), and his playing has had a tremendous influence on mine. I doubt when Jimi said that Mitch was “funkier,” he actually meant that Mitch was a better funk drummer. Besides, even if Hendrix did mean that, it doesn’t diminish the fact that Buddy has a much more prominent influence in funk drumming than Mitch does. Buddy will be mentioned in a discussion on funk drumming, while Mitch won’t be brought up. Jimi just wanted a drummer, who he had a strong chemistry with. And Mitch and Jimi had a telepathic connection. I’d hail them as one of the best, if not, the best guitar/drum dynamic I’ve heard.

This isn’t to say Mitch never had any funk influence in his playing, because “Fire,” “Little Miss Lover,” “Freedom,” and “Dolly Dagger” all feature funk influences. Yet, most of these tunes don’t feature full-fledged funk drumming. Nor do the drums sound like funk drums, since Mitch didn’t tune his kit the way a funk drummer would. As a side note, Tribe Called Quest sampled “Little Miss Lover” in this song “Scenario” on their album Low End Theory. In addition, it’s not a coincidence that when you Google: “Jimi Hendrix funky,” or “Jimi Hendrix funkier,” the majority of the results are discussing Hendrix’s Band of Gyspsys project. Buddy had a traditional funk sound, feel, and he used traditional funk tactics. Mitch was more of mysterious drummer, who you couldn’t really pin down. His sound fits with the ‘60s/early ‘70s drum sound, and many of his fills and solos were influenced by Elvin Jones.

Also, funk drummers for the most part aren’t hitting hard. They don’t slam. Rarely will you find funk drummers from ‘68-‘78 hitting hard, even though some used Bonham/Appice style drums, such as a 28” bass drum. They certainly weren’t hitting as hard as Bonham, or other rock drummers post-Bonham.

A lot of the reason for the loud funk sounds comes from how the drums are tuned. A snare drum in funk is tightly tuned both on the head and the resonant head. With this tuning, you’ll really get the crack sound out of the snare without even slamming. It wasn’t until Go-Go started developing, did funk begin taking a turn towards hitting hard. This is because Go-Go is one of the main bridges between funk and hip-hop. Prior to this movement, it wasn’t common for funk drummers to hit hard. There are examples, but hitting hard wasn’t the norm.

And because I think the Gypsys are a good jumping off point to explore some of Buddy’s career. Listening to the albums will help to provide insight into the material that the Gypsys were playing, since Buddy had a prominent influence on their sound. Here are some essential Buddy albums:
-Them Changes (1970)
-We Got To Live Together (1970)
-A Message To the People (1971)
-Buddy Miles Live (1971)
-Carlos Santana & Buddy Miles! Live! (1972)

The last album also features Greg Errico (drummer for Sky & the Family Stone), and the last track on the album, “Free Form Funkafide Filth,” is like getting sucked into a whirlwind. There’s a whole lot of funk patterns coming through!

 

Bonham wasn’t a hard hitter, by nature. It’s been said he had a lighter touch yet got a loud sound.

 

Amazon just took their money out of my account for the vinyl boxset....I'm excited.

 

What a great post. Thank you!

 

^ Yes, indeed!

Thanks Tiki for the great post!

 

I have been playing my cd box slowly to "savour" the different performances. It must be me obviously but the Band of Gypsys do not do a lot for me and I own just about everything that has been officially released by Jimi on digital.

 

Theres nothing wrong with that.
But I have to ask, if you own Band of Gypsys, and maybe Machine Gun, and didnt like it.
What made you think you would like the other sets of music that the original album and Machine Gun left out from this stand?
What were you expecting?

 

Maybe sell it so someone else can enjoy it.