Jimmy Page says previously unheard Led Zeppelin music will be released for band's 50th anniversary

It is largely based on JP's comments that Plant vetoed a live album configuration for Coda, and remarks circa 1993 that he wasn't going to waste time working on a live set if "someone" did not want it out there (most people assuming he was referring to Plant). Nevertheless, no one really knows how many archival projects have been proposed, how many have been vetoed or delayed, and by whom. JPJ certainly has taken positions, for example, he refused to let JP release a song with his lead vocal on the recent companion discs, presumably a lead vocal for "La La" or perhaps the rumored "Lost In Space" from the "Physical Graffiti" sessions.

Wall's perspective about the difficulties of getting a unified agreement from all four parties is likely the culprit for a number of delays (Peter Mensch referred to the same issue at one point, citing petty arguments/behavior for a lengthy delay). These guys and representatives from the Bonham estate are rarely in the same place at the same time. Everything has to be agreed upon, and all it takes is one party to have an issue with something, even a sentence in liner notes, to potentially cause serious time delays or project derailment (is it really a surprise that the original HTWWW did not have liner notes other than a two sentence statement from JP?). Even if a live project has been given a green light by all four parties, just imagine if there are issues with a song choice or an edit? One person wants it, another does not. Then an agreement or compromise is made, and another party changes their mind. Etc. etc. etc.

 

I get, and to some extent agree with, your analogy between Earls Court and the prior '75 tour on the one hand, and The Song Remains the Same and the prior '73 tour on the other hand. However, I feel like the highs of '73 were so numerous and so amazing, while the highs of '75 were less so. In other words, I just don't quite get how Earls Court is mediocre compared to the best of '75. The Song Remains the Same contains some excellent performances (The Rain Song, Stairway, No Quarter) - but to me the degree of fall-off between those shows and the best of '73 is much greater than the degree of fall-off between Earls Court and the best of '75. Maybe I just like Earls Court better than most other hardcore Zep fans, I don't know.

And yes, yes, a thousand times yes on that June 3 '73 show at the Forum - it's just incredible. Hindsight is 20/20, but given how much the band loved playing on the West Coast (and how much more they liked it than the East), I would've thought they'd have planned their pro recording dates for a West Coast swing. Even if they wanted to record towards the end of the tour when everything was well worked out and well-oiled, the June California shows were at the end of a major leg of the tour.

I think we're fortunate to have the How the West Was Won shows in professional sound quality. Sure, maybe Seattle the week before, or Long Island the week before that might be slightly looser or marginally more interesting here and there - but I think the Inglewood and Long Beach shows that make up the official release are within the margin of error to be considered best of tour for all intents and purposes (especially considering the homogenizing effect that Page's edits invariably would have on any performance when prepping it for release).

But aside from '72, it's just bad luck and chance that many of Zep's very best shows were not professionally recorded, and conversely many of the shows they did record were very good but not necessarily transcendent. In '75 and '77 possible (or in '77, actually planned) opportunities for pro recordings were scuttled because those fall tours/legs had to be cancelled (Plant's accident in '75 and the death of his son in '77). For earlier years, the Royal Albert Hall '70 show is fantastic, and it makes sense they recorded it professionally since it was sort of the band's coming-out party in the UK. But man, just two months later in Montreux, they were on a whole other level - and just three months after that at Bath, yet another level. Even in 1979, the Knebworth shows are decent (especially the first one), but the Copenhagen warm-up shows they played a couple of weeks before them are arguably their best live performances since 1973 - and they were of course not professionally recorded; all we have is very good audience recordings.

If Zep were around today, of course, they could easily record every performance and this problem would not exist. But it is what it is. I still hold out hope for professionally recorded audio of Montreux and/or Bath in 1970 coming out someday - and if they can (and will) salvage the Japan '71 multitracks, well, that would be one pretty darned transcendent set of Zep performances to release officially. And a more complete Earls Court release, plus a standalone audio release of Royal Albert Hall, seem like no brainers sometime in the next 1-7 years. But beyond that, I don't know what there is they they feasibly could put out there. Some of their most magical nights will forever be on audience tapes or soundboards only.

 

Agreed. There does not seem to be a noticeable contrast and drop in overall quality. Earls Court is a fine representation of 1975.

The LA/Long Beach shows are fantastic 1972 era concerts. Had the band not captured these two concerts on tape, they would be on the list of concerts fans wish had been professionally recorded, particularly the LA show.

Well, as you know, Bath was allegedly recorded. Perhaps one day some of its performances will be released.

I always thought it was odd that the Copenhagen shows were not recorded by the band. They were warm-up shows (after a considerable layoff) for a major festival appearance (and one that was intended to produce a home video release). One would think the band would have considered capturing quality recordings to review under the circumstances, as well as having additional audio to make edits/repairs on the Knebworth tapes if necessary.

The Japan tapes remain a mystery. The band has at least one show, if not more recorded. What is the problem? Certainly the performance quality is not the issue.

 

To me I believe the 2 shows in Copenhagen are better than Knebworth. Great selection of tunes played well and not to much bloat of the 1975-77 era. To bad those 2 shows weren't recorded. I would love to hear a proper release of that. Earls Court are nice for their selection of tunes they played. I would like to a release of 3 or 4 cd set of it.

 

My guess is that the band have soundboards of the Copenhagen shows, which they might have used to evaluate their performance in preparation for Knebworth - although I would not at all be surprised if they did not in fact listen to those board tapes, instead contenting themselves with being happy with the vibe of the Copenhagen shows and not wanting to pick apart the performances in detail. If their own accounts over the years are accurate, the band's members seemed to prioritize feel over rehearsal a lot.

As for using Copenhagen as a potential patching source for Knebworth, again I can only speculate, but I'd guess that they figured two nights of Knebworth would be sufficient to have a spare performance for patching purposes. And since the venue's acoustics would be so radically different in each place (even on a multitrack I would think there'd be some ambience leakage into the mics), they probably didn't feel it was worth it to have a 3rd and 4th backup tape, especially in those days before digital editing made all kinds of mixing and matching feasible.

 

IMHO, with the exception of Jones and Bonhan, ZEP was finished as a consistent live act past 71 or so..

 

Tell that to the ‘73 European tour...

 

Hmmm, perhaps in retrospective you are right about ‘consistency’ however I always found Physical graffiti and its tour to be a step up from their previous albums and tours.

I have some good memories from Montreal ‘75 boot.

 

I will : SLOPPY =

 

If that’s your only reference point for Europe ‘73, you’re in for a treat. The string of German dates are particularly excellent. Some would say the band's instrumental peak.

 

This is slightly off topic, but it relates to the relationship between Plant and Page. This from an interview on musicbusinessworldwide.com with their former manager Bill Curbishley:

"I was with Robert Plant from 1982.

A few years later, he approached me about managing Jimmy and I said: look, I’ll meet with Jimmy, but you both have to understand that when things come up I’m probably going to have to agree with one half of you and not the other – so you’d better be prepared for that. It was difficult, because they’re totally different characters. I did things for them which, if asked with their hand on their heart, they should be eternally grateful for.

Like what?

They sold all of their record catalogue income and all of their publishing rights to Atlantic and Warner/Chappell some years prior to me joining them. And I, along with George Fearon, their US lawyer, got both back for them – which they still have today. Jimmy Page felt that if he remastered the catalogue it would sound a lot better. So I went to Doug Morris (pictured), who was running Atlantic. We were old mates. I said Jimmy wanted to do a remastering job on all the Zeppelin stuff, but if he does it I want their royalties back. Doug said okay. The first boxset Jimmy did retailed, four CDs, at $75. It sold 2.2m. It cost Atlantic nothing other than the remastering. And the band got their full royalties back, which they still have today. Then I went along to Warner/Chappell and said, look I’m getting ready for the reversion of the Zeppelin [publishing] copyrights. The copyright period in America is 28 years – and I told them that [the first Zeppelin songs] were due to revert the next year. They said it was rubbish. So I said, alright, in that case, I’ll go round the corner to another publisher and I’ll do the deal right now for them to inherit these songs when they are returnable. There was a lot of huffing and puffing. They came back in the end realizing that we were right and said: ‘Okay, what sort of admin deal are you talking about?’

I told them it had already gone elsewhere, and we’d got $30m as an advance. They agreed to match it and pay the $30m for the admin rights. There was no other deal.

Have you ever been fired by an artist and if so what did you learn from it?
Yes. Jimmy Page sent me a letter saying he didn’t want me to manage him anymore. I was in New York when I received it. It was the result of the band arguing over royalties. When I got them their royalties back from Atlantic, Jimmy felt he should have had more of a percentage, because he was the producer of the catalogue. The other two engaged with him and agreed to give him a bit extra. I said: ‘Are you happy with that?’ He said yes, but he obviously wasn’t. He felt that I should have backed him more strongly in this but I didn’t really agree with his concept. When they sold their royalties he was paid extra for his producer piece. When I regained the royalties it was a group royalty and I couldn’t see any logic in splitting it differently.

He said he wanted to leave, and I was okay with that. With Robert Plant, it was the reverse – I left him. I resigned on a point of principle – which really meant something to me. No regrets. We had a good relationship for 26 years. It’s over"

They do have quarterly business meetings in Mythgem Ltd where everybody is participating, either personally or through a representative. But as others have pointed out, imagine how long it takes to work things out. Let's just say that Jimmy Page wants to release Earl's Court. He needs everybody onboard. Let's say it takes a year to get everybody to agree that this is a viable project. A year/18 months later he presents the "Earl's Court tapes" to the band. Now the band has to decide on what to include and what to leave out. Robert Plant wants it to be an honest representation, but no No Quarter. JPJ wants No Quarter and the Bonham Estate wants to have Moby Dick etc. Then they have to decide on packaging, formats, interviews and when a release fits with everybody's schedules. And once that is over, you suddenly get a letter saying that you can't use Woodstock in Dazed and Confused so you need to get back to the drawing board.

I think we're all underestimating the time and effort involved to get a project through. Since Robert Plant actively has gotten the publishing rights back, I do think he is very involved in the "Zeppelin estate", it's just that he doesn't want to talk about it. In the latest Mojo he is, as usual, quite good in not answering the questions put forward.

 

My first post in this thread.. has previously unheard Zep music been released for the 50th anniversary?

 

I'm waiting too. The answer right now is no.

 

I remember hearing that Curbishley got them their record royalties and publishing rights returned. I was always a bit stunned that they sold off their royalties, and that in Plant's case, it was Peter Grant who allegedly facilitated the sale. The details are hazy, but allegedly Plant sold his royalties back to Atlantic as part of the negotiation for his solo deal in the early 1980's. Yet the album was released on Swan Song (a record label he partially owned), and it has also been reported that Plant personally financed the recording of his solo debut, so it is unclear what arrangement he had to make with Atlantic. Perhaps his royalty/publishing sell-off transaction occurred a year later when Swan Song folded and he established his Es Paranza imprint with Atlantic (possibly facilitated by Phil Carson?), however, Peter Grant stated in an interview that the last thing he did for Plant before retiring was negotiating his initial solo deal.

It is very surprising that Peter Grant would have suggested to Plant, JP, and JPJ that they sell off their royalties and publishing (did the Bonham estate also sell of its royalties?). How could Grant, who was a very savvy manager, not have seen the longterm value in those assets? Perhaps the sale occurred after Grant resigned from his management duties? Nevertheless, they should all be grateful for what Curbishley did for them because they would be in very different financial situations right now had they not received decades worth of catalogue and publishing royalties.

 

I seem to recall reading an account of this over on the official LZ forum, perhaps by Steve Jones. It was something along the lines of the feeling in the early 80's the the catalog would diminish in value. That attitude only changed with the advent of the CD and then later when artists and record companies realized they could sell the same material yet again with remasters.

 

To some degree, that is understandable. There must have been diminishing returns in terms of annual sales figures. Still, it is surprising because Zeppelin had a history of selling quite a bit of product and so it should have been evident that it was going to be an evergreen catalogue. The biggest shocker is that they sold their publishing rights -- that makes no sense at all.

 

They were a force from '69 through the European tour of 1973. One of the best live bands ever during that period.

 

Regarding Bath festival '70 multitracks... Has there been any real confirmation that this show was professionally recorded? In the very limited pictures of the front of the drum kit, I only see one microphone on the bass drum. This is the standard setup for most of their shows. For the shows that are confirmed multitracked (RAH 70, Long Beach & L.A. 72) there are 2 mics on the bass drum. One fed to the board and one fed to the truck. It's still possible that the signal is split at some point, but this would be outside their before and after method. If it was multitracked in this method the explanation may be less setup time due to a shared festival setup vs. their gig. DontDknow... Anyone?

 

No confirmation, mostly deductive reasoning. It was definitely filmed; how much was filmed is up to debate. It is believed the Peter Grant commissioned the concert to be filmed, and if that is indeed true, then it would have likely been properly recorded as well (like with the RAH filming). There is also Jason Bonham's remarks that Bath was going to be released -- clearly he would know what projects were under development. Perhaps one day fans will receive confirmation one way or the other.

 

Fender have announced a Jimmy Page guitar for Jan '19. The teaser shot is the back of a Telecaster headstock. Good news for guitarists, and way overdue.

 

Fender and Jimmy Page Announce Signature Model Telecasters | Premier Guitar

 

I so want this ...

 

I wish one day we would discuss an actual live release here

 

So maybe the unheard music Page mentioned was the music that will be played by guitarists across the world playing one of these?