Jimmy Webb clears up Association/"MacArthur Park" story

Went to a Jimmy Webb show in Boston tonight, which included a Q&A afterward. I got the chance to ask him about the fabled 25 minute suite he wrote for the Association, which was supposed to have included "Mac Arthur Park" as the centerpiece. Specificially I asked what the other music might have sounded like, and if he ever used any of it elsewhere. (He was sitting at the piano, so I hoped we might even hear some of it).

His response was that there never was a suite-- "and I wish I could pull something like that out of my bag." He said that "Mac Arthur Park" was all that he brought to the Assocoation, who were well into the Birthday album at the time. They would have had to pull two or three of their tunes off to make way for a seven-minute song and weren't willing to do so. Webb said he was sporry that the story always made the Association look bad, and that he had no hard feelings at the time. But he did confirm that as far as he knows, Bones Howe walked out on the Association afterward because of this.

So there you go: no suite, and the Association missed "Mac Arthur Park" all by itself!

 

That's really cool you got a chance to go to the source, and that he was so forthcoming.

Really, though, does anyone think "MacArthur Park" would have worked for the Association? It's a completely mad song, not at all like a pop song you'd expect from that period, and very much not a song that would work with a harmonizing lead vocal. Then again, it shouldn't work for a froggy-voice Irish actor, either.

 

Yeah, I really do think it would have been perfect for them. They had the perfect kind of voices for it, and they'd done a couple of mini-operas ("Requiem" and "Bus Song"), so it wouldn't have been beyond them. I'd always wondered about that lost Webb suite, so it's interestuing to learn there never was one!

 

What a great story!I'm still kicking myself for missing a Webb appearance last year at the Mauch Chunk Opera House in nearby Jim Thorpe,Pa.I've been a fan since "Up,Up & Away" days. Also missed an early tour appearance in Bryn Mawr,Pa. that he mentions in "If You See me Getting Smaller I'm Leaving",since,as he alludes to, the line to get in was indeed pretty long to get in(my buddy & I drove around the block a couple of times).If I ever get a chance to meet,I know not to bring that Epic LP of demos,but maybe an original Dunhill copy of Thelma Houston's "Sunshower","Ten Easy Pieces" or the outside box to the Rhino Handmade CD set.

 

The Assocation's problem is that they never could decide what they wanted to be. Their first hit, "Along Comes Mary" was very quirky, a burst of energy, very creative. But then came the lush, lovely "Cherish" a pop record radio and public embraced so much that they were all disappointed when the quirky, even crazy sound came back with "Pandora's Golden Heebie Jeebies." Next up was another ballad, "No Fair at All" and then "Windy," then "Never My Love," then "Everything That Touches You." Pure pop for hip people, perhaps, but they liked to rock, too, as "Six Man Band" made clear. But it would seem that those who loved "Cherish" couldn't reconcile that sound with their more ambitious psych/rock leanings. And since they weren't the Beatles, they couldn't manage to convince people they were comfortable in both musical realms.

"Mac Arthur Park" would have made sense for them but one can understand that, deep into an album, they would not have wanted to frig with what they had put together. They could write quality original material, and usually did, but did go outside when the song worked for them. But "Park" must have seemed strange even to them, and there certainly wasn't a more unlikely hit in 1968 than Richard Harris' seven-minute opus, right?

 

Think that's partly a product of having six (sometimes seven) guys in the group, and they all write and sing lead. Then again, it was mostly one guy (Terry Kirkman) responsible for some of the biggest hits and the most out-there stuff.

Also -thnking that "Birthday" had only 11 songs-- they could have removed just one and had room fior "MacArthur." Ah well..

 

Brett: Thanks for posting this. I have for many years wondered if that story about the suite was true. Glad to finally get a definitive answer.

And I am kicking myself for forgetting about this Boston show...Should have gone...

 

Thanks, and he is there (at the MFA) again tonight! Highly recommended.

 

I agree that this song would have worked for the Association, but it wouldn't be the same without Richard Harris's unique voice at the time.

 

Saw Jimmy Friday evening in Tarrytown NY and he was excellent! A couple of standing ovations and told great stories in between tunes. Got to meet him after the show (while signing cd's) and he couldn't have been nicer. If he comes near you, don't miss him!

 

From what I read a couple members of The Association weren't really thrilled by "MacArthur Park" and told Bones Howe this causing him to walk out. Persoanlly, I couldn't see them doing it. But ever since I saw the SCTV skit with Dave Thomas I'm glad they didn't

 

According to my new barber, who claims to know some of these folks, Jimmy Webb wrote the song while crashing with Buddy Greco after breaking up with Linda Ronstadt's cousin in MacArthur Park.

 

I can't imagine the Birthday album being any better by putting a version of MacArthur Park on there and taking away 3 already good songs. I'm sure Bones saw that MacArthur would be a massive hit if he could've had them do it. Not surprised he walked out on them. Seems like they had a different producer for every album. They were gonna move on anyways.

 

I'd say MacArthur is a away better song than "Toymaker," and making it the finale of side 1 would have made the album a masterpiece, while adding only three minutes.

Strong possibility that the Association were just being lazy.

 

I'm not that knowledgeable about them. Were they known to be lazy?

Looking at the credits for Birthday, I really think they wanted an album not to rely on too much outside help. I personally think MacArthur Park is a giant piece of schlock. I love Jimmy Webb but never have liked this one.

 

Known mainly for having a real good time. But if the album was nearly done, they may not have felt like attempting a major production number.

 

I love Toymaker, I always skip Rose Petals and the Bus Song so replacing those 2 (six and a half minutes)would work for me.

 

No one wants to lose songwriting royalties

If they had done MP, I bet Russ Giguere would have sung lead. Or maybe Terry

 

"Toymaker" would seem the natural song to lose, since they didn't write it and Yester has a couple of better leads on that album.

 

Not to mention that they most likely (or someone in the band) KNEW it was a hit. There's goes that person's credit on the next single. If it had replaced "Everything That Touches You" as a single and that song never appeared on my introductory Greatest Hits, I'd probably never had delved into them looking for other gems beyond the hits.

 

To me, the great mystery is not why they passed on Macarthur Park, but why they thought it worthwhile to do the considerably weaker PF Sloan. That's a song they should have taken a pass on (and their version is pretty lame, on top of that).

 

The way I read it he was certainly going out with Linda Ronstadt's cousin and they used to meet in MacArthur Park. Not sure where the break-up happened but that is possible.

 

I guess he'll never have that recipe again!!

 

True, although for me, some others come close: "Honey", "Harper Valley P.T.A." and "Fire". All great songs, but they seemed a little offbeat for the Pop charts. Especially the first two.

 

Didn't The Wrecking Crew play most of the instruments on the Association's albums?