John Lennon Imagine 2018 Boxed Set (Content and Sound Quality Issues Only!)*

I have the two CD set. I LOVE the remix/remaster of the album (ultimate mix). I like that there is less reverb, vocals are more upfront and clearer and that individual instruments are cleaner and delineated. I hope the same treatment is applied to Mind Games, which is in dire need of being cleaned up.

 

As this thread is not too long I would be interested in what folk think of Mind Games 1. as an album (I think it is bit weak overall) and 2. best digital version.
I don't have an old Parlophone cd of Mind Games just the tracks on the 4cd Lennon box. I have the remix/remaster and the MFSL gold cd. Also the 2010 remaster of the original mix and the recent sacds/platinum card sleeves from Japan. Also there is the signature set hi res download which I have. The Japan cds are lovely but the redbook 2010 is fine in my opinion.

 

The SACDs and Hi-Res are the 2010 remaster.
The MoFi is their mastering of the remix.

I like the album just fine. It's just not as good as POB or Imagine.
Best version is the MoFi for the remix or the 2010 remaster. Original CDs are notoriously bad for the Lennon catalogue.

 

I think the remix of Mind Games is far superior to the original mix. I Know, I Know is perhaps the best example of how poor the original was. As for the album itself, it's mid-to-lower level Lennon for me. Better than STINYC and Rock & Roll, but worse than the others. There's perhaps 3 songs that I really like from it.

 

There was much talk when this set came out about what, exactly, was on it. I've been trying to piece together precisely what we now have by way of outtakes but I'd welcome a more authoritative guide. Did we ever get to the bottom of how/why we have a full Take 3 of Crippled Inside, for instance, when only Takes 2 and 6 were complete?

 

I'm confident that the numbering of 'Crippled Inside' comes down to an interpretation of what constitutes a take.

When listening to the raw session tape of Takes 1-3 (which is available only through unofficial channels), Take 1 is a 0'20 breakdown. Engineer Phil McDonald calls out "2," which is followed by a pair of false starts (two notes and seven notes) before the band makes it through a complete take (3'49).

We then hear Phil McDonald's slate "3." John proceeds with a two-note warm-up/false start, asks "are you ready?" and begins. Spector quickly breaks it down ("start again") after only six notes (0'02) and John only manages the count-in before he has a fit over talking in the studio ("for fook's sake...). This is then followed by a 0'36 break down, after which McDonald changes reels.

All of this doesn't tell us much, except that the complete take labeled "Take 3" (Disc 2, Track 7), takes place before McDonald's "3" slate. Therefore, it must be Take 2 by the reasoning that it can't be Take 3.

The Evolution Documentary doesn't help to clarify things at all. We hear Take 1 (the 0'20 breakdown) followed by McDonald's "2" slate and the two brief false starts. Then there is an edit which excises the complete take, the "3" slate and John's two-note false start. It picks up again with Spector's (six note) break down and an instrumental mix of the 0'36 breakdown that followed, before it cross-fades to another take.

So to recap, we do not have "a full Take 3 of Crippled Inside". It's not necessarily Take 2, but it is the performance that directly precedes McDonald's "3" slate.

I hope that hasn't made things more confusing!

Chip Madinger
LENNONOLOGY | Strange Days Indeed
EIGHT ARMS TO HOLD YOU | remastered
www.lennonology.com

 

That all makes good sense - kinda - and your description of the raw session tape (that I haven't heard) appears to match that of the Raw Studio Mix of Takes 1 and 2 that we have, it still doesn't explain how the allegedly Take 3 fits with the Takes 1 and 2 that we also have. A brief attempt at a serious listen to both the "Take 3" and "Takes 1 and 2" suggests to me that Takes 3 and 2 are identical (bar their respective mixes). Are you suggesting simply that the naming convention hasn't been applied consistently? The book simply tells us that only Takes 2 and 6 were complete but gives us a full Take 3 without explanation.

 

What they call Take 3 is really Take 2, the first complete attempt.

Chip Madinger
www.lennonology.com

 

Which is bizarre given that the exact same take is also referred to as Take 2 on the same set.

 

You don't like the Yoko remix of Mind Games from '02? To me that is a much clearer/cleaner mix superior to the original. Also there are some terrific sounding bootlegs of the Mind Games sessions.

 

Love the contents, love the sound quality, love the price. That's how deluxe boxed sets should be released. Hopefully a similar one will be available for Double Fantasy / Milk And Honey.

 

The RSD release ”Imagine - Raw Mixes” actually reminds me of the stripped down version of Double Fantasy. I think both are great listening, hopefully we’ll get raw/stripped down versions of more Lennons albums.

 

Can someone post a list (if one hasn’t already) stating how to compile the Raw Mixes track list themselves as a playlist?

 

All track are in the Imagine: The Ultimate Collection (physically and on Spotify). I compiled a Spotify playlist by searching the song title and the take number.


IMAGINE – RAW STUDIO MIXES

Side A
1. Imagine – Take 10 / Raw Studio Mix (3:12)
2. Crippled Inside – Take 6 / Raw Studio Mix (3:50)
3. Jealous Guy – Take 29 / Raw Studio Mix (4:22)
4. It’s So Hard – Take 11 / Raw Studio Mix (2:42)
5. I Don’t Wanna Be A Soldier, Mama – Take 4, Extended / Raw Studio Mix (7:56)

Side B
1. Gimme Some Truth – Take 4, Extended / Raw Studio Mix (3:40)
2. Oh My Love – Take 20 / Raw Studio Mix (2:48)
3. How Do You Sleep? – Take 11, Extended / Raw Studio Mix (6:00)
4. How? – Take 40 / Raw Studio Mix (3:55)
5. Oh Yoko! – Take 1, Extended / Raw Studio Mix (6:16)

 

I've just finished listening to the whole box set, and I'm very positive about it. But the greatest surprise for me is one that I think went unnoticed: there's a fragment of Reflects dans l'eau by Debussy played by Nicky Hopkins on piano (it must be him as it's a very difficult part with fast arpeggios!!). For those interested, it's on the first track of CD 4 (the Imagine Evolution Documentary) at the 3:21 mark.
And here's a link to the piece by Debussy:

The short fragment played by Nicky is at 1:14. I didn't know he was into classical piano! In fact, the whole box set highlights how great a session musician he was!!

By the way, the beginning of this same piano piece by Debussy was used as introduction on Rod Stewart's cover version of Ruby Tuesday!!!

 

Does anyone know if there's a difference, compression-wise, between the raw studio mixes on the CD vs the Blu-ray?

 

Mind Games is my third favorite Lennon album behind Walls & Bridges and Plastic Ono Band.

MG, to me, sees John brimming with sonic ideas and a playfulness and creativity that hadn't been seen since early 1969. And for producing this all himself, yes there are some missteps, but he took chances on the production and there are some real transcendent surprises on this. My favorite tracks are:

1. Bring on the Lucie - Hypnotic slide guitar riff married to John's biting political diatribe, verse lyrics that are everything "Gimme Some Truth" tried to be.
2. Mind Games - John out spectors Spector, creating a huge sound with only layers of guitar and keys. Take that Phil!
3. I Know, I Know - Beatle-worthy. Impeccable vocal, sweet folk/country melody. Never gets old.
4. Out the Blue - As a composition, it's remarkable, taking John's penchant for "I'm sorry/love you my lady" type songs and making it universal instead of stuck in the John/Yoko orbit..."All my life's been a long slow knife" is a better lyric than any lyric off Imagine.
5. You Are Here - What a vibe. Light one up on the porch. Chill. Sweet tune. A very left-field approach to a love song and it pays off.
6. Aisumasen - The Plastic Ono Band track that never was. Epic guitar solo. Confessional Lennon delivers a knock out vocal here too.
7. Meat City - John actually rocks out with loud ROCK guitars! Not blues or classic-R&R riffs...Again, for the first time really since POB. Love the post-psyche vibe of this and the lyrics are amazing in a playful Lennon way.

I'm all in on a Mind Games remix and box set. There are more interesting outtakes for this record than Imagine, too. Bring it on!

 

Can anyone shed some light on the Blu-ray raw studio tracks not included in the CD counterpart? Is there anything here particularly revelational or that provides an improvement over the other versions on the set?
How? (takes 7-10)
How? (take 40 alt vocal)
Oh Yoko! (take 1 tracking vocal)

 

So, I finally got to compare the new mix with the 2000 one, and just as I believed when I first heard the new one, I prefer the 2000. In the new one they have overdone the idea of emphasizing John's voice, the 2000 is much better balanced. It's also clearer for some reason. The only song I would take from the new mix is HDYS, in the 2000 mix only the strings are in stereo.

 

I do like the new remix very much but I agree that the 2000 is better; "better balanced' is a very good way to put it between high's and lows. For what it's worth, I'm a very big fan of the Peter Cobbin remixes. His work on POB and Mind Games is outstanding, IMO.

 

Klaus’s DI bass in the right rear channel is sometimes too strong. It’s also has a buzz.

 

Did anyone notice the Blu-ray disc 2 on The Raw Studio mixes outtakes it's misnumbered they left out track 6 and number 1 through 11 there's only 10 tracks. The tracks are numbered one through eleven on the back of the box but there's actually no number 6 track I noticed this when I was ripping the disk for my hard drive.

 

where the Lennonology books can be previewed and purchased ?

 

I have the 2 CD edition of Lennon’s “Imagine” Ultimate mix.

For I Don’t Wanna Be A Soldier Mama I Don’t Wanna Die (Take 11), John Lennon is not credited on the booklet. Does he play any instrument on that take ?

 

On the 2 CD edition of Lennon’s “Imagine” Ultimate mix,
does John Lennon play any instrument on I Don’t Wanna Be A Soldier Mama I Don’t Wanna Die (Take 11).
He is not credited on the booklet.