John Lennon: Working Class Hero? - Beatles Childhoods In Liverpool

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by notesfrom, Jan 10, 2022.

  1. Chemically altered

    Chemically altered Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ukraine in Spirit
    Yes, I married a woman from Northern England where her views on classes were very different from mine. But she still had views.
     
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  2. mercuryvenus

    mercuryvenus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Can one of the Brits on here explain the part of this interview where they reference Harold Wilson and John says “we’re not gonna vote for Ted.” It seems like there’s a class thing happening.

     
    51IS likes this.
  3. maywitch

    maywitch Forum Resident

    Yes. John's aunt( and uncle before he died) owned Mendips and they owned other property as well. His mother at some point(don't know about where she was living when she died) lived on one of their properties. They weren't rich but they weren't living paycheck to paycheck either. They had money to spare. John always had that as a fall back. It was a neighborhood that had doctors and lawyers, etc.

    Paul, George and Ringo lived in council(government) housing. Paul lived the majority of his childhood in the same neighborhood as George, Speke. His mother's job caused them to move around a bit because had to live in the neighborhood's she served. They lived at two addresses in Speke, first Ardwick Rd and then Western Ave(where he was living when he met George). So Forthlin Rd may have been a nicer area but it was because it's where she was placed and it was still a council house. They were also living even more tightly after his mother died. Paul once he started earning anything, usually gave part of what he made to his father to contribute to the household. When he was in Hamburg the first time, one of the reasons he couldn't replace his busted guitar isn't because he was cheap it's because he didn't have it, he was sending part of it home.

    Lennon himself admitted that he was a rung above the other Beatles classwise, this really isn't an argument. John really wasn't conflicted about it, he knew it and said as much. Basically he was "slumming it" when he wanted to and he knew it.(by which I don't mean by a large degree, I'm not claiming he was rich, but he wasn't working class and he knew it). It's also something he and Stu had in common(though Stu I believe was probably a higher level of middle class). In fact Stu apparently wrote his sister Pauline about how he and John used to sometimes borrow money from Paul with no intention of paying him back, because they thought it was funny when he got upset. I'm pretty sure an actual working class person probably wouldn't do that.(Oh they might borrow money with no intention of paying it back, but most likely they wouldn't do it just for kicks).
     
  4. Chemically altered

    Chemically altered Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ukraine in Spirit
    I'd rather forget about that era. :laugh:
     
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  5. mercuryvenus

    mercuryvenus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    In the US, among people with so-called “old money” (aka money for generations), it’s also considered vulgar to flaunt your wealth. I knew some people from families like that, and they drove old cars, wore high-quality but not flashy clothing (aka LL Bean, Patagonia, etc.).
     
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  6. Vangro

    Vangro Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    It doesn't bother me either, the song is true even if you want to quibble about how true it is in terms of Lennon's own life.
     
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  7. Chemically altered

    Chemically altered Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ukraine in Spirit
    Yes, but the Americans don't have any monarchs.
     
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  8. joy stinson

    joy stinson Secret friend

    Location:
    Dickson. Tn
    Absolutely agree…this became an issue because of John’s radical “working class hero” “power to the people phase” and a glaring contradiction when John in America settled into a very wealthy lifestyle in the Dakota with furs, antiques and yoko increased investments which fans knew about but the play girl 80 article emphasized.
     
  9. Vangro

    Vangro Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    They're not going to vote Tory - that doesn't mean they didn't by the way!
     
    Dave S likes this.
  10. MaybeI'mMrsVandebilt

    MaybeI'mMrsVandebilt Just spinning on my axis

    Location:
    London
    And my views will be different again because I married into it as an outsider, being Australian. I'm used to it now, but it was such a culture shock for me coming from a country where you can't tell where someone is from simply by listening to them speak. Even though I've been here for over 25 years now, I'm still learning all about it. However, I am now an expert at weather talk. lol
     
  11. maywitch

    maywitch Forum Resident

    Can't listen to the interview but Harold Wilson was the Labour Party leader and Edward Heath was the Conservative Party leader. They both were Prime Ministers(Wilson from around 64 to 70, Heath from around 70 t074 or 75 I think).
     
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  12. Jack Lord

    Jack Lord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    You might want to look into it. What you got going now defies sanity. :tiphat:
     
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  13. Brewmeister

    Brewmeister Forum Resident

    Location:
    Baltimore
    I remember reading in some McCartney biography that until he was in his late teens or early 20's he rarely ever ate a piece of fruit that wasn't canned as fresh fruit was considered a financial luxury.
     
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  14. mercuryvenus

    mercuryvenus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    At least no formal monarchs! We have celebrities who are practically royalty, but that’s just because this country worships celebrity.
     
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  15. Vangro

    Vangro Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Wilson 64 to 70 and 74 to 76 - he won four elections, I think? Heath 70 to 74.
     
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  16. MaybeI'mMrsVandebilt

    MaybeI'mMrsVandebilt Just spinning on my axis

    Location:
    London
    Yeah, I think it's hard for people not from England to appreciate that income alone isn't a signifier of class. It can contribute but it's not definitive. The biggest determiner of class is your background, your family tree. And then to a large extent, your education, but even that isn't simple. So when people see that John was living in a particular house type in a particular neighbourhood, they think, oh, he was middle class. But you've got to take into account his family background, which was working class. And also the fact that working class housing is often mixed with middle class housing. It's why the likes of David Beckham for example, despite all his wealth, could never be accepted as upper class.
     
  17. Chemically altered

    Chemically altered Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ukraine in Spirit
    You also have some celebrities that claim to be richer than they actually are. So I've been told.
     
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  18. Vangro

    Vangro Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    The President is an elected monarch.
     
  19. Chemically altered

    Chemically altered Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ukraine in Spirit
    But only for 4- 8 years.
     
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  20. jimod99

    jimod99 Daddy or chips?

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON
    Many who were defined as "working class" in the 50's-70's would become "middle class" as the years progressed, particularly those who progressed in their careers, eventually purchased their own homes, cars ect. Kids went to university as opportunities opened to them, my parents would be an example of this.

    There certainly wouldnt be any movement from middle to upper class.
     
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  21. mercuryvenus

    mercuryvenus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Oh gosh, let’s hope it doesn’t come to that! At least theoretically, we have checks and balances in place to constrain presidential power.
     
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  22. Chemically altered

    Chemically altered Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ukraine in Spirit
    So far!
     
  23. rockerreds

    rockerreds Senior Member

    And some who claim to be poorer than they were.
     
  24. Nakamichi

    Nakamichi The iceage is coming....

    Location:
    St199nf
    Spot on. We call the likes of Beckham
    " new money". He would never be accepted into the upper class and neither would Jeff Bezos.
    Lennon was working class his whole life and was probably proud of it. We hate social climbers in this country.
     
  25. Chemically altered

    Chemically altered Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ukraine in Spirit
    Sometimes they claim to be both!
     
    joy stinson likes this.

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