As someone who was raised in the UK and moved to Canada as a 16 year old, I would say this is a very accurate description of John's role in the UK class system. This system is quite complex to understand if you have not experienced it first hand. There is no doubt in my mind that John was working class by UK standards.
Where to start??! Edward ('Ted') Heath was the then leader of the Conservative Party, the 'Tories', often viewed as the party of upper class 'toffs'. His predecessor was the grouse-shooting 14th Earl of Home. But then you got a lot of working class people voting Tory and in fact they tend to win far more elections than their opposition, the Labour Party. Ted wasn't an aristocrat by birth but he did have the accent and liked to sail yachts and play organ music. The Labour Party was then led by Harold Wilson who was also Prime Minister at the time. Labour were, in theory, socialists and, as such, supposed to be the natural party of the working class but see point above regarding working class Tories. Harold was viewed as a populist and was responsible for the award of MBEs to the Beatles, seeking to attract some of their popularity to himself. Both Conservatives and Labour operated punitive tax systems during the 1960s, hence both Wilson and Heath being name-checked in Taxman. There's no read across to mainstream American political parties, both of whom are probably to the right of the British Conservatives. I mean, socialists in America, they're like commies aren't they...? John is probably just having a dig at Heath's accent rather than making some deep socio-economic point about the British class system. In 1970, England got knocked out of the World Cup by West Germany, the Beatles broke up and Ted Heath became Prime Minister. A lot of people would argue that those events are connected.
The President is elected, not like a king or queen monarch who are only there because they were born into it. Therefore very different.
Thanks! This is helpful. And to your point about socialists being commies … because of the Cold War and crappy American education, a lot of people have become paranoid about anything with the word “socialist” in it. It’s incredibly stupid. But I digress.
Are you English? Lennon was I am assuming you are American and thus won't understand the English class system.
An extremely interesting thread that gets into ….aspects of Lennon and all of the other Beatles I’ve always felt were under emphasized throughout the years and in books, articles and public perceptions of them….but surprised it’s allowed on this forum as inevitably it gets into discussions of politics as well as views of wealth. Occasionally, I have seen these things mentioned here on the forum …Macca’s wealth of last many years, George’s huge home and multi fancy cars, etc, but the class system interpretations of them have rarely been discussed here or anywhere.
I've been outside all the Beatles childhood houses By far, John's was the most "upper class" one Ringo and George were the poorest John Paul George Ringo
In Australia we have what we call the 'tall poppy' syndrome, which is probably a legacy from the mother land. If a person starts to get too aspirational, they get 'cut down'. Nobody likes a tall poppy. Me, personally, I don't care if people want to achieve, or earn more money, or live a more affluent lifestyle. I'm very egalitarian in that regard. A question for our American friends: do you think John preferred living in America because he could leave behind all the class division and prejudice associated with it? I don't know about the class system in America, but I had heard that nobody minds if you set out to better yourself, or try to live a more affluent lifestyle? Edit: I also ask this because I've always wondered why John never went back home, even when he seemed homesick (in later interviews)?
More likely he went to American because the British hated Yoko and for tax purposes. If he had stayed in England he would still be alive.
I think it’s possible. NYC in particular is a place people go to pursue their dreams. LA is also a place like that. Far from cutting people down who get too tall, Americans love a story about someone who makes it big because it perpetuates the notion that anyone can do it if they try hard enough.
Ironically today the Labour Party, the traditional party of the Working Classes are more right wing than Ted Heaths Conservatives, and the least said about the far right views of the current Conservative Party the better. The two main political parties in Britain mirror their US counterparts more and more every day.
I read he referenced that when leaving England but also hated the Brit press in the seventies..which once Murdoch bought off the London evening standard in very late sixties …was very unkind to millionaire rock stars like J&Y and mocked their performance art and Beatles were no longer seen as celebs in the press as group had broken up. Murdoch along with the Brit tabloids ran his paper and from my reading still does to agitate less well off folks against wealthy folks and to stress class/money divisions ..thus much later, Brexit result. This is from my reading and perceptions though am an American,
I know John said in a number of interviews that he loved New York City in particular because he could just walk around there, almost as a regular person, without people all over him hassling him due to his fame. So that's probably a lot of the reason for enjoying the US and wanting it to be his home. As for US values toward people wanting to move up in class, I'd says it's generally understood as wanting to "get ahead" and it's very normal here. Getting ahead is not looked down upon at all, if anything it's expected and/or looked up at as a smart thing to do, i.e. getting as much education as possible, etc.
No disputing that…and had he returned to live in England in the seventies likewise he would most probably still be alive. However, George was also attacked in England though miraculously survived as not shot multi times because much, much harder to get a gun in England from my reading.
Signifiers of class have most definitely changed I think, since the 1960's - your relationship to and consumption of the various types of culture is probably a bigger element these days than back then, as is where you choose to holiday, what kind of food you eat (& how much time you spend in the kitchen) etc. Class was probably a lot easier back then, as people of a certain income &/or based in a class-specific area simply had less opportunity to change up those habits, even if they wanted to.
The British press mock everyone. Get too big for your boots and you get knocked down. That's the British way. Elton John has been mocked for decades but still lives here. Lennon did get a bit silly with his bed in nonsense. He was asking for a pasting. The British hate pretentiousness and see right through it. McCartney and Harrison always stated down to earth and stayed in this country despite their wealth and are respected for it.
Absolutely, which is why I said earlier that when discussing John's class, we really have to consider the time period for lots of different reasons. Today, there seems to be more social mobility (although I read that a recent government report found social mobility has stagnated since 2014) and the class spectrum seems to have widened, or there are more levels. In fact, there's a really interesting recent government study that has added a few more classes into the system as it were. I'll have to find it. Anyway, it's no longer a simple matter of Upper, Middle, Working. There's about 7 different levels now. On your bit about consumption, food etc. I couldn't believe when I first arrived here that there was such a thing as a posh supermarket! lol. Waitrose of course. And even M&S is considered middle class. But not Asda. lol. I just couldn't believe there was a hierarchy of supermarkets.
