Joker - 2019 Film*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by neo123, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    My theory was that it didn't happen, or that very little of it did. It works in the sense that this is a standalone film - the established cannon set up in many retellings of the real Joker having killed Wayne's parents in front of his eyes outside a movie theatre can still work even within the confines of this film. In fact, that might be one of the few bits of the film that actually happened.
     
  2. Rne

    Rne Sufferin' succotash!

    Location:
    Malaver
    Yes, that door segment is loaded with dark humor and also tension, since we're not absolutely sure whether the fellow is going to be able the leave the apartment alive or not.
    I was extremely bothered by some people in the audience laughing during some dramatic moments just because the main character couldn't help his laughing fits.
     
    George P likes this.
  3. balzac

    balzac Forum Resident

    The thing that makes "Joker" so good to me is that while it has a lot of "maybe this happened, maybe it didn't", it also has at its core a very straightforward through-line that you can choose to follow where everything is pretty linear and happens at is presented, no tricks. I like looking at the film in both ways.

    But I love that it offers on its face very clear answers to most questions, while leaving ambiguity for alternative readings.

    As for the "he inspired the *real* Joker" stuff, I'm not into that, nor do I think it's needed. It can just be a standalone thing, full stop. Phoenix never did and still doesn't have to come back. I'm not sure why there's still a strong desire to try to tie it into anything else, past or future, whether Leto or Pattinson or whatever. If they do a sequel, that would presumably (although not even with certainty!) be a continuation of the story. Otherwise, nothing else in film, TV, print, etc. is tied into it or vice versa.
     
  4. Chrome_Head

    Chrome_Head Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA.
    I would agree, the film did do that very well. Big part of that both-ways reading is by virtue of having Phoenix's Fleck in every scene.

    I doubt most people expected this much out of the guy known for The Hangover movies.

    I'd love it if Joker were a standalone film. Just thinking like the WB execs, who see not only the dollar signs that this movie made, but look with great drooling envy at Disney/Marvel's MCU at 22 movies and at least that many billions of dollars made off of them. They want a successful franchise, which they haven't been able to do since the Nolan Bat-films.
     
  5. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Your opinion is as valid as anyone's. In fact, I think I agree.

    I am seeing it again tonight. When I first saw it, I had no intention of a second viewing in a theater because it was just too heavy. But I can't get it out of my mind, and I want to see how much matches my memory. I can't remember the last time a movie made me feel like that.
     
    enro99 and Chrome_Head like this.
  6. brownie61

    brownie61 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I saw this today and have to agree with everything in your post.

    This was an odd film for me. I can’t say I liked it, but I can appreciate the brilliance of Phoenix’s peformance, and the wonderful cinematography that recreated the gritty, grimy NYC I remember from the late 70’s-early 80’s.

    I thought the Batman story details detracted from the film. This was an interesting story of a mentally ill man and didn’t need reference to Gotham City or the inclusion of the Wayne family. It felt like those elements were added in tangentially just to make more money.

    I agree with others that the Murray Franklin show was the Johnny Carson show in everything but name. Even the show’s theme music was similar!
     
    Rne likes this.
  7. For what it’s worth I think the whole film happened in the diegetic reality, aside from the obvious flights of fantasy - being in the Murray Franklin audience, the relationship with the neighbor, and possibly the very end - which could be read either literally or metaphorically. Otherwise, the movie is pretty pointless. One of the only movies I’ll buy as nearly totally imagined is the original Total Recall.
     
  8. Rne

    Rne Sufferin' succotash!

    Location:
    Malaver
    And of course the Joker's appearance on the show is a reference to Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.
     
    Chrome_Head likes this.
  9. neo123

    neo123 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Northern Kentucky
    Here is a congratulatory tweet from Ryan Reynolds (star of Deadpool 1&2) to Joker for passing his movies up for highest box office R-Rated movie.:

    [​IMG]

    Ryan Reynolds on Twitter
     
    Chris DeVoe and Vidiot like this.
  10. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Hot Take Resident®

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    I still cannot understand why this had to be attached to “Gotham” and the DC universe. Why couldn’t it have been a movie unto itself?

    Was it the studio was worried about box office? The movie is rated R. How does that compute with a movie with comic book ties?
     
  11. radickeyfan

    radickeyfan Forum Resident

    Why?? Because 5 scenes in the movie are directly lifted out of the comic books...from what i have noticed .................i am told with another viewing i will catch another 3 scenes
     
  12. radickeyfan

    radickeyfan Forum Resident

    Huh??? since Wonder Woman , 4 out of their last 5 comic book films , all have been a huge success
     
  13. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    The "Deadpool" movies are even more clearly "comic book films" and they're "R".

    There are a bunch of "R"-rated comic book films..
     
  14. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Hot Take Resident®

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Yep, you’re right. Watchmen was, too, now that I think about it. Dumb post by me.
     
    Chris DeVoe likes this.
  15. Chrome_Head

    Chrome_Head Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA.
    Wonder Woman, Aquaman and what else? I guess Shazam did pretty good numbers? Justice League tanked (Joker made more in a month than JL made in its entire domestic run). I guess the others haven't proven themselves as franchises yet outside of their first entries.
     
  16. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    No, actually the guy who killed Mr. & Mrs. Wayne was a minor street thug/criminal named Joe Chill:

    Joe Chill - Wikipedia

    Joker had nothing to do with it, according to many retellings of the Batman legend. But yes, his parents were killed in a robbery attempt right outside a movie theater. I chuckled that director Todd Phillips included the "spilled pearls" detail that has been shown several times in previous films.
     
    AppleCorp3 likes this.
  17. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I think he and Phillips have already said they would be reluctant to do another Joker movie with Batman as another character. But who's to say what they would do with the right degree of money and creative control? A lot of things change once Oscars and a near-billion-dollar gross are involved.
     
  18. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    In the 1989 "Batman", they made Joker the one who killed the Waynes...
     
    AppleCorp3 and GodShifter like this.
  19. Biggest misstep in a Batman film; worse than the overblown Bat-voice in Dark Knight.
     
  20. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    I remember Bob Kane going along with the company line in 1989 and saying something like "we would've make Joker the Waynes' killer if we'd thought of it!"

    Which I doubt. That seems like a "hindsight 20/20" thing, as no one in 1940 could've foreseen that Joker would become Batman's dominant nemesis for decades to come.

    Seems more powerful to me that an anonymous schlub killed the Waynes anyway. Joe Chill acts as a stand-in for basic crime and feels like a better symbol of what Batman wants to eradicate...
     
    GodShifter and BeatleJWOL like this.
  21. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    See, so there's my ignorance of the comic book universe, I guess.
     
  22. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
  23. neo123

    neo123 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Northern Kentucky

    Yep. I read about that being improvised.

    Also, the scene in which he was playing with the gun in his apartment (after it was given to him) and it accidentally going off was improvised. The director and rest of the crew didn't know he was going to do that. After that scene and the refrigerator scene were filmed, Phillips decided to go with the flow and give Phoenix all the freedom he wanted. He mentioned that he decided to have 2 or 3 different cameras set up too around the scenes in case Phoenix did something unexpected and one camera may have not caught it on film.
     
    Vidiot, George P and MAYBEIMAMAZED like this.
  24. MAYBEIMAMAZED

    MAYBEIMAMAZED Don't think Twice it's alright

    Location:
    DFW TEXAS
    I saw it today it's definitely a dark movie with a message I don't think the story and ties to Gotham City/Joker batman past were the full intention more about the character and reasoning behind the character.
    I can't see him making a sequel to this but he went fully into being his version of Joker-like he always does with his acting .
    The refrigerator scene was good and really brought you into the mind of this character. You went from feeling sorry for him and how he was treated all that happened to him to not being surprised at the gruesome actions and results of him.
    Did he kill because of his life or because that's who he is?
    The song That's life at the end brought it all together no matter how shocking. I knew that's how it would end with him committed it's where he wanted to be...
     
    brownie61 likes this.
  25. peteham

    peteham Forum Resident

    Location:
    Simcoe County
    I thought the film was a pretty empty experience.
     

Share This Page