Qobuz subscription includes very good download discounts. I recommend integrating with a proper Roon install. I'm pretty sure that the stand alone Blue 192/24 is the forum recommended. Sounds very good via streaming. Was hoping to confirm that there wasn't an earlier hi res (before I buy).
Yup. But even more common is a new remastering of a particular title, slammed and squashed, kicking a sometimes better previous master to the curb. "All Things Must Pass" is a notable offender in this regard. There was one download of that album that came closer to being halfway decent about a dozen years ago. But I guess somebody in charge realized that they had screwed up letting a good mastering get through, decided "well, we can't have that, can we", and remedied that mistake pretty quickly by yanking it and replacing same with another bad remaster. That title stands out more like a sore thumb than others since there never really has been a good digital version in the first place.
In fact, my new Court is the 2013 E.U. pressing.. my only frame of reference on vinyl is my original 1974 pressing. In comparison the 2013 EU is very warm! I like both.
I have the Bellman cut of Court and Spark and prefer the DCC. I think it has greater “presence”, from those opening piano notes.
Soooooo, after wading through another six pages of comments about the CDs, vinyl, comments about some popular female poster who no longer posts here etc. etc. etc., I still didn't see an overwhelming amount of raves for the new CD set of all four discs, so I made the decision to return it sealed to ImportCDs and they even sent a postage-paid label. I am curious to hear the mix of the first album, but there's a LOT of pro and con comments, and honestly, I've never played it and thought it sound awful, and one factor is my expectations because of what it is. This (edited) post from fallbreaks summed it up: My take is: this was an unknown folkie singer/songwriter's debut in the sixties, low budget and produced by her musician/boyfriend, and to me, that would be my expectations. It's a product of that era and those times, a classic Laurel Canyon 60s release; there's a certain beauty in the innocence even if the recording quality doesn't sound like George Martin produced it at Abbey Road. I'm sure someday I'll get a chance to hear the remix — if it does come out as a standalone, I'll pick it up for sure — but for now, I can live with and appreciate the original for what it is, and the other three haven't gotten enough raves here to justify keeping the box. I appreciate the comments and the time people spend writing them; despite occasional off-topic comments and um, slight, hostility, I've made many buying decisions based on things I've read here. As always, thanks to Mr. Hoffman for starting this site to begin with; I have many of his excellent DCC releases and actually had a friendly conversation with him on the phone — pre-common computer days; people actually spoke on the phone and wrote letters! — about his 1987 DCC Amboy Dukes collection and some of the issues I had with that. But now I'm getting off-topic! Ha! I'll save that for another thread!
!!!! Reprise years! Yes! A lovely article on Joni & Eric Andersen, reunited: Blue River...Joni backing Eric Andersen....listen and read on... Eric Andersen at McCabe’s: A Bittersweet Reunion with Joni Mitchell Terry Roland / Neo Depression / 2017 Eric Andersen’s appearance at McCabe’s in Santa Monica, California has become an annual event, which is good-news for L.A.’s Americana-roots music scene. The veteran singer-songwriter responsible for such classics as “Violets of Dawn,” and “Thirsty Boots,” has been especially active for the last few years with new releases and concerts that include the 40th anniversary of the Rolling Thunder Revue in Duluth, Minnesota last year. This night at McCabe’s was unique with celebrated guests like the members of the improv-comedy company, The Committee and actress Amanda Plummer. But the most honored guest of the evening was Joni Mitchell, looking relaxed and healthy in the front row. The icon of the 70s singer-songwriter movement, is in recovery from an ailment that struck her in 2015. In times past, she has joined Andersen on the McCabe’s stage. But not this time. She quietly sang from her seat with Andersen on several songs. It was a bittersweet reunion between two life-long friends. Her vocal on Andersen’s 1972 classic, “Blue River” is among the finest ever recorded.
I compared the Blue in the box set to the recent Kevin Gray cut. The Kevin Gray version is cut a bit hotter and with more low end - it's apparent when you listen to the kick drum in the first minute or so of "California". I prefer the Kevin Gray version. HOWEVER, I think that the box set version is more consistent with how the record was originally mixed and mastered (and with other reissues I have heard on vinyl and CD), where the bass isn't so prominent.
I found this very interesting. Most of us on this Forum (certainly those that struggled with the US Beatles stereo box) are aware that there can be differences between records issued in the EU and the US. Still, I would not expect differences between 180g records pressed at Optimal vs. RTI in 2021. It's almost enough to make me buy both boxes to compare. Almost.
So the cd box set just arrived. Packaging and design is first rate. Will keep it just for that. I can't believe Song To A seagull remix sounds way worse than the previous version. Just listen to Night In The City. It's as if the mixes have defied time and swapped places! The previous version sounds like the remixed version and this remixed version sounds like it's been shifted from under a jello bowl to under a toilet plunger. Bad plumbing Joni! All the ambience is gone as is the stereo panning and there seems to be no understanding of noise reduction subtlety, compression or song continuity. Joni's recordings in her bedroom (Archives vol.1) sound better. The only positive is that screeching harmonica on Nathan La Franeer has been tamed. Of course there's only so much you can do with a recording that already historically suffers (were they a bit compromised ...ahem..). Maybe some things really are unfixable. I mean how could you fkup the recording? It's mainly just vocal and guitar!!!!!!!! If seperate tracks actually exist someone needs to solo Joni's voice and re-record all the guitar parts. Someone call RICK BEATO immediately. Song To A seagull is such a great album of songs it deserves proper attention. On a positive, so looking forward to the Archives box 2 which will have the album live and we'll finally get to hear the Song To A Seagull suite in all it's glory. 10 Vinyl version instantly preordered.
Yeah, while I haven't heard the remix, I took the original CD version out while I was running errands — 2-door Ford Explorer Sport, four speakers, round ones on each of the two doors and two larger oval ones on the side paneling in the back, windows rolled up due to the heat so little if any road noise — and I thought it sounded fine. The guitar was crystal clear, as was her voice, nice balance of the two. A very enjoyable listening experience, having not heard it in quite a while. Definitely something I can live with in my collection without feeling I'm missing some amazing improvement, since not a lot of people are claiming that and in fact, as with antonio, some are saying it's worse. Enough of posting about this release (for me); now, onto awaiting Archives Vol. 2!
I received my Reprise Albums boxset (RTI) today. I started with Blue, one of my favorite albums of all time. I really like Kevin Gray's remaster, I thought it couldn't be beat, but I feel like Bernie Grundman's is more "natural", more "acoustic", more "transparent". It is beautiful. I am glad to have both.
Now that the four Reprise album are out of the way, I presume that a set of ensuing Asylum titles are or soon will be in the pipeline for LP/CD/Downloads release. Certainly the album covers are gorgeous in the Reprise set. I now fervently hope that someone addresses that ugly Ektachrome green shift on the "For the Roses" cover photo. That was noticeable enough to bug me even when I first purchased it back in 1972, and to my knowledge I have never seen any attempt to remedy that since. I am quite sure that the color shift was not an artistic decision (probably just a bad batch of E-4 Ektachrome, or perhaps too long before lab processing, since that photo was taken in the wilderness after all). Considering her many years as a photographer herself, she certainly would know that color correction isn't all that difficult to accomplish, even back then, let alone now.
I have the Grundman / Optimal cut and it's brilliant! Only issue was my first copy was covered in hairline scratches. Second copy was perfect, silent, huge!
I have both sets and they both sounds great. Optimal has hairline scratches on them and non fill on STAS that somehow doesn't make any noise. Optimal seriously has to be the worse pressing plat in terms of QC out there right now. This ongoing non fill, hairline scratches that we see coming out of optimal is a disgrace, not even Rainbo would do this. EU version is also much harder to get the records back in the jacket, you pretty much have to throw away the poly lined inners unless you want to fiddle and try to jam it in everytime. I prefer the small package of the EU version, the covers have a nice waxy finish that I've never seen before. RTI pressed 4 flawless discs though so I'll be keeping the RTI version, despite being a bit thicker of a package. Something I found semi interesting that I have seen mentioned is the EU version gives us a separate blue inner sleeve for Blue while the US version has a blue slipcase type thing (shaped just like the MOFI pamphlets you get with MOFI records). The US version has a much darker blue on the jacket of Blue (similar to the KG cuts), while optimal has a nicer lighter Blue that remind me of the original I have
I just had my vinyl box arrive via Amazon. I thought they were stocking the US version as it said US on the site, however my the EU version arrived. And just like the above poster mentioned all my records are covered in hairlines, and Blue has massive marks all over both sides of the records! The QC at Optimal is TERRRRRIIBBBLLLEEEEE!!!!! I reckon 50% of the records I buy that are pressed at Optimal are damaged in some way. It's a disgrace! Thankfully it's super easy to get a replacement from Amazon, however it's still a disgrace!
Did Optimal press vinyl for ECM? I had to send back a copy of Keith Jarrett Trio "Yesterdays* for warped vinyl and my replacement copy is better but still warped and there was a skip in one track. WTF??
Listening to Blue now... The HDTracks version will remain my go-to. There's nothing hugely wrong with the mastering on this, but I feel as though there's slightly too much bass, particularly on the first half of the album. Edit: There's some distortion at 1:13, 1:32 and 2:18 on This Flight Tonight.
Despite not even remembering the last time I've returned anything I've gotten (including non-musical items), I've decided to return my 4 LP set. It was a gift, so perhaps that makes it easier. Not suggesting anyone else do likewise, I hope those who get it enjoy it. But for me, it wasn't worth it. If I didn't already have decent original vinyl copies of Clouds and Ladies of the Canyon, maybe I'd feel otherwise. But these are no upgrade to the originals, and now I think it's wisest for me to just seek out decent original copies of Song to a Seagull and Blue. The Seagull remix is no improvement on vinyl (I had originally heard the YouTube version of the remixed Cactus Tree and thought it sounded good at that moment and in that context) and in some ways is worse than the original IMO at least when I (possibly unfairly) compare it to my original CD. Overall, the momentary distortion on certain tracks and channels, as mentioned by others here (i.e. the opening of "Morning Morgantown"), is a deal breaker for me, worse than the general paranoid suspicion I have that everything has been run through a mild kind of emulated tube saturation compression plugin (and on the Seagull remix, noise reduction plugins that worsened the sound of an already weak sounding acoustic guitar) that has defeated the purpose of a modern remaster.
I checked my hi-res files from 2007 and same distortions/static is on there. On the Qobuz hi-res stream it's there too but it seems more artfully disguised. But, the really bad defect at the beginning of Morning Morgantown is NOT on earlier versions.
^ Yeah, that Blue static/distortion has been documented here before. Iirc, our host explained it as being caused by the solid state mixing desk during the initial recording. I believe I have that right, but someone correct me if I am mistaken.
Just received my replacement box from Amazon. It's even worse than the first haha! All 4 disks are COVERED in hairlines. The first box was at least pretty silent. I just put Blue on and it's popping and cracking up a storm! What a joke! Luckily Amazon is super easy to get a replacement. But it's still ridiculoud! ALL 4 DISKS! Erggggghhhhh
I've just got my first listen to the remix of 'Song to a Seagull', it would have been my main reason for purchasing this box set. I have no idea what they have done to this and I did not think it possible, but the remix is far less satisfying than the original mix...! That's being polite. The acoustic guitars sound as though someone has run a reverb plugin on them (after no-noising them to an inch of their life), then removed all traces of the dry signal and left the reverb channel as the sole sound source... They sound distant, no acoustic chime, no upper treble, no meaningful bass, just everything sitting in the midrange. What have they done..? Okay, the original mix had some wide stereo in places, but for this, it's as if they decided to go for an almost mono sounding mix... (I know it isn't), but the melding of the double tracked acoustic guitars onto the center channel on so many songs, with little separation, causes all sorts of strange effects. It sounds especially wrong on songs like 'I Had a King'. There's what sounds like previously unused tracks being mixed high, sometimes sounding like mistakes, listen to the end from around 3:55 of 'Marcie' where an out of time guitar with single strums comes in and just sounds *wrong*. There's other parts popping up like this elsewhere in the album. Then there's the compression, audible pumping on Joni's voice, like she's being squashed into a box. Joni's early voice had very high natural peaks and troughs, but it's as if they've tried to flatline it all. Listen to the line 'I in my leather and lace could never become that kind' on the original, where Joni is almost whispering in hushed tone towards the end of that line, and then the remix where voice seems to remain unnaturally flat. The emotional dynamics ironed flat. Sheesh. The vocals on 'Michael From Mountains' just sound odd and disjointed, as if there's some sort of disjointing in the frequencies and the stereo image. The end is drenched in noise that wasn't even on the original mix (which had its own inherent noise issues). The compression on the piano parts on 'Night in the City' causes it to appear and disappear at points, again, no chime and natural dynamics. And this is all on my first listen. I'm saddened because I really do think 'Song to a Seagull' would've benefited from really masterful restoration and remixing. I really do have to question how the remix came to sound so poor, the multitracks seem to have been employed because there's those odd guitar tracks that weren't audible or used on the original mix. I can't believe I'm actually preferring the original mix in A-B comparisons, and I've ALWAYS wanted to hear a remixed version of this album using modern equipment to do minor clean ups and even out some of the quirks of the original, but it's as if they've taken that remit and gone 500% with the sliders in their DAWs.
2021 remix vs. orig. mix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNubS6bf-0w whoa .... just from this alone .... i can tell they killed the dynamics of her vocals (compressed them too much).... all subtlety LOST. i'd actually call this rather radical / TRAGIC. as well, the 2021 is not as enveloping in regards to the stereo image .... and where did the low end on her voice and guitar go? it's certainly less engaging emotionally for me ... thanks for your detailed observations. great ears btw.
All I'm going to say is this. If they were to release the multitracks, unfettered and straight off the tape and charged the price of the whole box, I would buy them, and others with a decent set of ears and the capability to mix would do the same. I know the original tracks are problematic courtesy of some VERY out there recording choices, but I am certain that with time, patience and a good set of tools, someone could come up with the definitive mix of this album. Sadly, the current official remix is not the definitive version. I would also like to state that the 'Archive' boxes and material have been superb. The remix of 'Song to a Seagull' to me as seems like a 'knock it out quick because not a lot of people care about that album' job. The thing is, more people would care about that album if it was finally given the restoration and remix job it deserves! Sorry for the rant, I actually enjoy 'Song to a Seagull' and have always wanted to hear it sounding at its best, it just feels like a missed opportunity.
