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Joy Division. 2015 RHINO Anniversary vinyl reissues

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by jimhb, May 15, 2015.

  1. inaptitude

    inaptitude Forum Resident

    Was listening to my 1st US Unknown Pleasures pressing last night and boy its sounds good. Semi-translucent vinyl is cool too.
    Stencil likes this.
  2. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Forum Resident

    SF Bay Area

    Thanks for posting this. I'll have to refer to it the next time I find myself with an off-center pressing on the turntable.
  3. GyrodecMan

    GyrodecMan Active Member

    I bought Substance yesterday (been meaning to buy it for a while) sounds great.
  4. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Just discovered something odd about the 2015 Substance 96/24. It's probably a good bet it also goes for the 2015 LP and CD, but I don't have those, so I can't confirm.

    Some later CD pressings of Substance replaced the 12" version of "She's Lost Control" with a slightly different mix, which was previously unreleased. The easiest way to tell them apart is that the 12" version fades out, but the alternate mix does not (making it 10 seconds longer).

    I was surprised to discover that the song doesn't fade out on the 2015 96/24 Substance, which indicates it's the alternate mix. The Singles 10CD used the 12" version and I thought it was said that the 96/24 is from the same mastering, so what's going on? Well, I loaded them into an editor and discovered the answer. The 2015 doesn't use the alternate mix, but it also doesn't contain the true 12" version either. It uses the 12" version for most of the song, but splices on the extended ending from the alternate mix. What would possess them to do that? Now the collection lacks the real 12" version.

    And as you can see, the source for the ending was 44.1khz:

    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
  5. edb15

    edb15 Forum Resident

    new york
    great detective work
    rnranimal likes this.
  6. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Thank you.
  7. c-eling

    c-eling I never dreamed another way.

    I'm just actually surprised it took this long to discover it with so many fans on this forum that bought it, I skipped it mainly because I'm happy with my old US SRC press cd, nice find!
    rnranimal likes this.
  8. schelti

    schelti Forum Resident

    I am right now, the 2015 wins. It sounds smoother, the vinyl is dead silent, great pressing.
    marcfeld69, Mr.Sneis, Allan and 2 others like this.
  9. Marc Perman

    Marc Perman Forum Resident

    East of the Hudson
    The U.K. original Closer and mid-1980s Spanish UP I have sound worlds better than the 2007 Rhino versions, which to my ears sound compressed and rolled off. The 2015 Substance is better, if not ideal, in that regard.
    marcfeld69 likes this.
  10. Vinyl Fan 1973

    Vinyl Fan 1973 "They're like soup, they're like....nothing bad"

    I really need an original of UP, my original US first press Closer sounds fantastic. So open.
  11. max_samhain

    max_samhain Forum Resident

    Germany, FFM
    thank you for the information so far.

    I only have 2 records by Joy Divison : 1. "Closer" german factory/metronome from 1980, sounds very good!; 2. "Love Will Tear Us Apart" on uk factory from 1984

    I'm still looking for a nice "Unknown Pleasures" but the porky-cut is mostly too expensive. My second option would be the german factory/metronome pressing which is highly regarded and from my experience with the metronome "closer" I sure wont be disappointed. Anyway, even that one is not so easy/cheap to get ...

    So, Im wondering if you ever hear about these ones, or maybe someone here ownes one of them?
    Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures
    Joy Division - Substance

    both are 1988 reissues by Rough Trade, pressed in germany and mastered by Guenter Pauler. Pauler is the owner of "stockfish records" and "pauler acoustics" and - at least in europe - a well known and highly regarded mastering engineer who is often featured in hifi/audiophile magazines...
    I didn't found any information on these pressings on the internet but given the information above I think these reissues could turn out to be very good. And in fact they are cheap and not hard to get.

    So can anyone tell about the Rough Trade/Pauler- Cut?
    marcfeld69 and c-eling like this.
  12. It's Felix

    It's Felix It's not really me

    How much is the porky cut going for now? I have it and mine sounds AMAZING, but would never sell it.
  13. max_samhain

    max_samhain Forum Resident

    Germany, FFM
    if you are patient and watching ebay (uk ebay at best), you can still be lucky and get it "cheap" (you can get a vg+ copy for about 25 $), but as I said you need patience and a bit of luck. Some are sold for up to 100 $. Common price for a nice condition would be between 50 and 80 $ I think.

    I have some porky-cuts and they are really nice, anway I dont think that the difference in sound between the porky and some other decent original pressings (town house uk or german metronome) is worth the difference in price. As I said my german "closer" sounds fantastic and I cant imagine the porky being distinctly better. But I wouldnt sell it, too.

    By the way, I wouldnt buy the Rhino reissue. I bought so many reissues by Rhino, Sundazed etc. because they were highly praised and even if they were done really good (like the Stooges, Black Sabbath ....) the "originals" (including early represses) are always much better sounding than recent reissues, even if Kevin Gray has done them. If there are cheap originals available - like for Joy Division - go for them
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
    marcfeld69 and c-eling like this.
  14. c-eling

    c-eling I never dreamed another way.

    Think I have a couple GP's, other artists, that sound great. Thing is with these 88's, they me be from a digital source, if that bothers you. With the Substance comp being released it may have coincided with it. New Order's Substance was digitally sourced, so it would make sense these were also. I would love to be proved incorrect, because JD's Substance has been on my buy list for years, but I've hesitated to fork out the cash if it is indeed digital. I already have a US Qwest compact disc that sounds great as is.
    The 2015 Substance above looks promising, looks like they more than likely used the 24/96 for it.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  15. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    New England
    That was the predominant say so back then. That the Substance, Closer and UP vinyl reissues - including the Rough Trade/Pauler - were digitally sourced.
    But I've never heard one, and never read of one being compared here. And digitally sourced doesn't nec. mean bad. This isn't chamber music, remember.

    I don't know about the Qwest US Joy Division pressings, but I can tell you their 1980's New Order lp pressings were superb.
    In fact, I may prefer the Qwest Power, Corruption over the UK original.
    It's certainly better than the late 80's Europe Swedish reissue on MNW, which has been frequently sold as a UK original.
    The only way to spot that one is to look for MNW on the label.
    Echoes Myron and c-eling like this.
  16. BroJB

    BroJB Hey man, is that FREEDOM ROCK?

    Apart from sounding great, I love JD in the vinyl format because of the packaging. Factory turned everything they did into a work of art. They created glorious objects to own, not just glorious records.
    hutlock, HiFi Guy 008 and c-eling like this.
  17. c-eling

    c-eling I never dreamed another way.

    I haven't come across a Qwest PC&L's yet. But my early Canadian Emile Lepine cut is quite an improvement over the US RT Automatt. I found one a few years ago sitting next to a Emile Lepine Love Will Tear Us Apart. Both looked like they had been in a crate untouched for decades. Enjoyed them so much I've been on the lookout for more of his JD/New Order cuts
    nosliw likes this.
  18. nosliw

    nosliw Azunyan! にゃーーー!

    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    I find the Emile Lepine cuts to sound great.
    c-eling likes this.
  19. c-eling

    c-eling I never dreamed another way.

    JD/New Order loved Canada... Exclusive only variations, singles etc... :)
  20. max_samhain

    max_samhain Forum Resident

    Germany, FFM
    today I got a porky prime cut of "unknown pleasures" and the G. Pauler-mastered Substance. The porky cut sounds very nice and I'm looking forward to playing the german Pauler. Will post more soon.
    johnnybrum, patient_ot and c-eling like this.
  21. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    New England
    We're waiting...
  22. max_samhain

    max_samhain Forum Resident

    Germany, FFM
    ok, compared "she lost control" on Pauler "Substance" and Porky "Unwkown Pleasures". I hadnt expect the difference to be so big. Porkys cut sounds much better.

    Dont know if theres a difference between Pauler "Substance" and Pauler "Unknown Pleasures"
    HiFi Guy 008 likes this.
  23. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    New England
    No surprise there. But I'm still curious to read your results of the digitally sourced German Substance.
  24. Echoes Myron

    Echoes Myron Forum Resident

    My Quest vinyl of PCL is to die for. Your Silent Face is demo disk stuff...top shelf sound quality.

    I really need to pick up originals of JD Unknown Pleasures and Closer. The Rhinos are excellent but I want to hear the real deal.
  25. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    New England
    Yeah, and the vinyl tends to be much quieter. I've forgotten who at Qwest got New Order's catalog reissued. But I believe the initial interest was the Blue Monday single. And I know for sure that the interest in them was definitely not from Quincy Jones nor Michael Jackson.
    Can anybody tell us who at Qwest brought New Order vinyl to the US? Whoever it was, they did a wonderful thing. PC&L, Low-life and Brotherhood especially are extraordinary pressings. And I have the UK originals.
    Are the Qwest Joy Division pressings also great?

    The Factus pressings are good - for all Factory records (I have many and they seem to have something in common with the German pressings).
    The vinyl is dead silent, but they do lack that last bit of detail compared to the UK originals.
    Closer is in a different category, though. Yes, the UK original has more detail, but there's something about the Factus that keeps me coming back to it.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017

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