Joy Division Day By Day - Part 2

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by bettsaj, Mar 22, 2019.

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  1. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    Postscript

    General Discussion

    So, here we are at the end and the only thing now left to say is thank you for all your contributions to this...... Now it's just time to open up the floor to anything at all. We've covered everything that's legally available and also a couple of items that crossed over from the dark side. All in all it's been informative, and interesting for me hearing all your comments.... The floor is yours.
     
  2. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    That was a fun ride. It even made me purchase Les Bains Douches and Closer on CD (I sold the LP back in the 80s).
     
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  3. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    Any thoughts on what they should do for the 40th Anniversary next year.... Not only marking Ians passing, but also Closer..

    We know Peter Hook has some gigs lined up for May 15th & 16th next year in London & Manchester respectively, but what else should they do? Should London Records release anything to mark it....... 40 years is a milestone
     
  4. Pop_Zeus

    Pop_Zeus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southport, UK
    This is extremely unlikely but it would be great if Hooky, Bernard & Stephen could bury the hatchet and play together again even just as a one off or a very short series of dates. This is not nice to think about but let’s be realistic about it, they are not getting any younger and so many of the Joy Division family have died young, that if they waited for the 50 year anniversary to play together they might not all get there!

    They could make a sizeable donation from ticket sales to charities associated with epilepsy / depression / suicide prevention etc, then it wouldn’t be just about them doing it for money, and it might help bring them together for good causes. As regards vocals there could be some carefully selected guest vocalists, and/or Hooky & Bernard.

    Like I said, unlikely, but it would be a powerful thing for the 3 of them to show some forgiveness, and play together as Joy Division, for a good cause, and for many of us it would be the closest we come to seeing JD live.

    I’ve seen Hooky touring JD material with his band The Light twice. The first time, at Leeds Cockpit, was immense. They opened with Dead Souls, played Unknown Pleasures in full, then a few from Closer and some random songs. It was amazing to see an original band member playing the songs I’ve enjoyed for so long. Hooky handed me his half smoked Marlboro Light as Ceremony started, and I still remember a guy next to me saying “You lucky bugger!” I still have it along with the gig ticket. A bizarre souvenir but hey. I was chuffed to bits years later when I saw that the gig I was at was released officially.

    I saw him a year or two later doing UP & Closer in full at Holfmfirth Picturedrome. It was good but didn’t match that first time seeing him live in a great small (and sadly now closed) venue. For those like myself who never saw JD live, I highly recommend seeing Peter Hook & The Light whilst you can.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
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  5. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter


    I actually think that would be a brilliant idea..... Like you say, unlikely, but worth discussion. To see them actually go out as Joy Division would be fantastic, as I honestly believe that Joy Division as a band is bigger than all of them individually, and it would go a long way to honouring Ian as without him they wouldn't be in the fortunate financial position they enjoy now. It would have to be stripped back, with maybe just a keyboard player (Not Gillian... Sorry, but I just don't think her presence would work as it would make it more of a New Order gig). Guest singers would be good, with Hooky and Sumner singing some of the songs (But please not Rowetta.... She irritates the pants off me)
     
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  6. Hush

    Hush "Fate, up against your will"

    Location:
    Aberdeen, Scotland
    I've really enjoyed this thread, thanks to everyone for their contributions!

    I've been a JD fan for a long time now, although I was just a wee bit too young to catch them live, and I've particularly liked reading about the live gig recordings, there's been some excellent discussion.

    I'd like to think that something will be done to commemorate the 40th anniversary next year, what that is though, I've no idea. The idea above about getting the three of them back together would be mouthwatering though.

    As an aside, I've just noticed it's 39 years to the day since JD's last gig in Birmingham.
     
  7. duncanh

    duncanh Member

    Location:
    South of England
    I’d like a boxed set of live recordings if there has to be something
    There are a fair few out there so it would be nice to have the best ones in a box set
    Joy Division were the best live band ever I think
    Probably more interesting for the die hard fan than anyone else
     
  8. lennonfan1

    lennonfan1 Senior Member

    Location:
    baltimore maryland
    I'm somewhat on board with you but I think, rather, Gillian should be there, call it New Order because Joy Division died with Ian, use the new members along with a Light member or two to do instrumental work while Barney or Hooky sing. I believe there's been some amount of hatchet burying with the Movement box release (as well as the upcoming PCL box) and they could fall into a live reunion set rather easily I think. I also don't think they should do it entirely for charity either. They should profit and profit well for all the delight they brought fans over the years. They are all quite aware of what they still mean to people, at this point they're so professional I'm sure they'll choose the right course wisely.
     
  9. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    One or two other JD anecdotes (that I have already posted on the forum somewhere).
    Very early on, when the only punk group that I had seen was The Fall (audience of 4 or 5 people), I saw in the press that a band called Warsaw were playing in Manchester University bar. There was a dark photo of them playing, featuring a guy with a white baseball cap and beard. Strange for a punk band. So along I went and it was quite a plush upstairs lounge bar. The first band up were a sort of Doobie Brothers/Little Feat outfit (beards, smiles and Hawaiian shirts). Leaning at the bar was a group of straight-faced blokes and one of them was the Warsaw guy with the white cap - yep, it was Hooky. The smoothy band played on and on until about 10:30-10:45, so it was getting towards last-orders/closing time. When they finished, I went up to Hooky and asked if they were going to play and he said that there was no time left. "**** that" I said. He just gave a disappointed smile and that was that. If only I'd engaged in more conversation and maybe met the others, I could've become the band's designer instead of fellow Manchester Polytechnic student Peter Saville!
    Fast forward a couple of years and the new Manchester venue for punk gigs (after the closure of The Electric Circus and the beginning of The Russel Club/Factory) was Rafters, a basement disco/club. I was at a gig (by perhaps The Distractions) and when it was over we were just milling around the tiny foyer preparing to split, not many people left, and a guy opposite in a long grey raincoat was smoking a fag and chatting, laughing with two girls. Our eyes locked and bugger me, it was Ian Curtis! A reflex made me acknowledge him and nod "y'alright!" and he nodded the same back with a slight smile. Again, I should've engaged conversation but Manchester nonchalent cool got the better of me.
     
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  10. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    I've got one of those raincoats..... Quite sought after now. It's a quarpel army green 274 US Army Vietnam raincoat. Cool as ****
     
  11. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    Just found another photo taken at Joy Divisions last gig at High Hall Birmingham University

    [​IMG]
     
  12. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    I can't work out if it was really that brightly lit in there... or whether it was just the flash from the camera, all the photos I've seen from that gig are the same. I suspect it was the latter

    EDIT: Definitely the latter

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    No stage, and i can't see the PA system....... There had to be one, but it's either hidden, or so small it can't be seen
     
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  14. Pop_Zeus

    Pop_Zeus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southport, UK
    So, somebody had to be 'that guy' nerdy enough to post the poll standings all in one list from the most popular songs down. Worth noting:
    • Part 1 of the topic (songs available to vote for: As You Said to Inside The Line) ran to 10 pages, over a 2 week period.
    • Part 2 currently stands at 33 pages (songs available to vote for: Insight to Wilderness), over about 6 weeks, so there was longer to vote for those songs.
    • Atmosphere was the poll 1 winner, thus was carried over onto poll 2, hence the large number of votes. I am not sure if Atmosphere's 55 votes was the total across both polls, or just the part 1 tally (it shows 28 votes for part 2). I guess the former, as if the total was 83 that would be more than double the next most popular song. Can @bettsaj confirm please?
    • In A Lonely Place was not included due to its 'rehearsal' status only (shame, as its such a great song)
    • You're No Good For Me was not included, though I doubt it would have got a single vote anyway.
    • All the songs not receiving a single vote were on part 1.
    Top 10 first. . .

    Atmosphere - 55 votes
    Dead Souls - 37
    Transmission - 36
    Love Will Tear Us Apart - 33
    She's Lost Control - 32
    New Dawn Fades - 29
    Decades - 26
    Twenty Four Hours - 23
    Shadowplay - 20
    Disorder - 18

    Atrocity Exhibition - 12
    Heart and Soul - 12
    The Eternal - 11
    Ceremony (live) - 10
    Day of the Lords - 10
    Digital - 10
    Isolation - 9
    Interzone - 8
    Leaders of Men - 8
    I Remember Nothing - 7
    No Love Lost - 7
    Walked in Line - 7
    Warsaw - 6
    Novelty - 5
    The Only Mistake - 5
    These Days - 5
    Ice Age - 4
    Something Must Break - 4
    Insight - 3
    The Kill - 3
    The Kill (Warsaw) - 3
    A Means to an End - 3
    Passover - 3
    The Sound of Music - 3
    Candidate - 2
    Exercise One - 2
    Glass - 2
    Komakino - 2
    Wilderness - 2
    Autosuggestion - 1
    Colony - 1
    Failures - 1
    As You Said - 0
    At a Later Date - 0
    The Drawback - 0
    From Safety to Where - 0
    Gutz - 0
    Incubation - 0
    Inside the Line - 0

    The cream generally rises to the top with these things, and my own personal top ten Joy Division songs would be very similar to the top ten across these polls, not in the same order, and probably replacing She's Lost Control with Day of the Lords. It was not easy only getting 2 votes per poll, if we had a few more than I'd have given Passover & Colony some love. They don't deserve to be so low down the list, but up against some of the titans of the JD canon, songs like that were always gonna be bit parts in the overall story. Thoroughly enjoying this thread, thanks so much to @bettsaj and thanks too for the ULU 2012 remaster link. It sounds great and I think has bumped the gig up a couple of places in my list of favourite JD gigs.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
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  15. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter


    Thanks for being the nerdy one..... I'm surprised Day of The lords is so low.... I'm being biased of course as it's my personal favourite along with Twenty Four Hours but generally I agree with the top 10. I'm not at all surprised all the singles are in the top 10, it's expected really as they get the more exposure to casual listeners especially LWTUA.

    The ULU gig remaster is a marked improvement, and as you say has notched it up a bit further on the live recording rankings.
     
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  16. Pop_Zeus

    Pop_Zeus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southport, UK
    No problem. So, was 55 the total number of votes for Atmosphere then? Still a long way ahead of the rest
     
  17. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    I believe 55 was the total which is part 1 and part 2 added together... Either way it won both polls
     
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  18. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    At last something is happening.....


    Joy Division’s ‘Unknown Pleasures’ to get special re-release for 40th anniversary

    Read more at Joy Division's 'Unknown Pleasures' to be specially re-released for 40th anniversary

    [​IMG]

    I don't know about you guys, but I'm a little disappointed by getting just a T-Shirt. The red vinyl pressing is a nod to the original red pressings.... But what I want to know is what is the source for the pressing? The 2015 digital files, or are they going back to the original tapes? I bet a weeks wages it's the former.


    I've started a dedicated thread for this discussion

    Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures 40th Anniversary Limited Edition
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
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  19. kaztor

    kaztor Music is the Best

    Simply can’t believe Colony got one vote, but hey...

    So, last week I (finally) got the H&S set in after an ‘Eternity’, wrapped in just plastic. I guess that’s what you get for free shipping sometimes... :sigh:
    The US ‘smaller’ edition. The book holder fell right out (glue has dried up), but enough bitching...

    I forgot how friggin’ AWESOME this set really is and thanks to you guys my interest in the band is bigger and better than ever before!!!! :righton:
     
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  20. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    Nothing a little glue can't solve.... It is a good set, but I still think they missed an opportune moment to collate a brilliant box set. For example, why only publish one track form the YMCA concert, that whole gig is excellent. The Factory concert is an oddity as it was published on the H&S box first minus Shadowplay, then re-released on the UP Collectors Edition in 2007 with Shadowplay in it's rightful place, couldn't they have done that in the first place and given us something else on the UP release?

    All in all H&S is a great set, and a must have for anyone getting into JD. It's honestly the cheapest way of obtaining all their studio recordings in one hit, along with a good selection of rarer stuff. the book is also a good read.
     
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  21. Colocally

    Colocally One Of The New Wave Boys

    Location:
    Surrey BC.
    This stuff is amazing for fixing loose booklets from Digipacks, trays from the same, seams that have become unglued from album sleeves etc.
    It works like the white out dispenser but instead is a double sided strip of tape. Works like a dream, no mess, no drips or leaks and goes just where you apply it. I have gone through so many of these over the years. One of the best things I have ever found. It is in the craft section, not the stationary section.
    [​IMG]
     
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  22. kaztor

    kaztor Music is the Best

    Thanks for the recommendation! :thumbsup:
     
  23. kaztor

    kaztor Music is the Best

    If I’m correct they left Shadowplay off to avoid excessive duplication (UP and RCA versions are elsewhere on the set).
    I can see their point, but it might have been better to have Still in it’s entirety (with 24 hours included) and the RCa album and first demos to fill up disc 4 for completeness sake.
     
  24. kaztor

    kaztor Music is the Best

    It absolutely is, but it helps if you’re aware of the band’s background story. For a newbie it’s quite on-the-nose. It’s pretty sad, uncomfortable stuff.
     
  25. markreed

    markreed Forum Resident

    Location:
    Imber
    There is absolutely zero chance of this happening. Hooky and the rest of the band are likely to never talk again, and only work together in managing catalogue releases. It was a bitter divorce and a expensive, and painful truce that was reached. Both sides feel their view is very. very valid, and that the conflict was so big, expensive, and brutal it likely had removed any relationship that could ever happen beyond mandatory business activity.

    Amongst many, many other reasons JD without Ian would be like watching The Doors with someone else singing. The JD magic came from the four of them. The New Order magic came from a different set of four people.

    The way to honour the 40th anniversary of Joy Division would be to release expanded editions of three albums [including "Still"], with a 2nd CD of rare, and sometimes previously unissued, studio material such as alternate mixes, vocals, b-sides, radio sessions (there are many which have not yet been released and quite a few in circulation), and the best quality live recording that has not *yet* been released from that period. The 2007 Joy Division reissues were finalised when the band were not talking to each other.

    I'd personally much prefer Hook to stop touring his Joy Division museum, which personally I find quite distasteful, but that's not my call to make.
     
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