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Joy Division Day By Day - Part 2

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by bettsaj, Mar 22, 2019.

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  1. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    To my knowledge (and I could be wrong) The only releases that were trans colour were:

    Unknown Pleasures (Red)
    Closer (Red)
    Atmosphere (UK Red, US Brown)
    LWTUA 7" (Red)

    I think it was due to the pressing plant, and the grade of vinyl they used to press the records, and nothing really *special*. The 1st pressings of UP were red for the first 15,000 copies, but then they changed pressing plants and they were plain old black, but the same stampers etc.
     
    fortherecord likes this.
  2. onlyacanvasky

    onlyacanvasky Has anybody seen my cup of tea?

    That's correct. Unless you hold them to the light they just look like regular discs.
     
    Pop_Zeus likes this.
  3. kaztor

    kaztor Music is the Best

    It must have been a decade since I’ve seen it, don’t recall everything of the movie anymore. But it is a great movie and would like to see it again.
     
  4. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    Day 19

    Shadowplay



    Long a live staple, this song first appeared on the Warsaw album and later recorded for Unknown Pleasures. Simple song of just 3 chords C, D & E (apart from the odd Em7 thrown in on occasion by Barney) Lots of tension, I love the guitar solos in this song, post punk with a mature sensibility. This song is literally on nearly all the live bootlegs I've got by JD (around 30 at last count) and was obviously performed at their last gig at High Hall Birmingham University.
     
    Pop_Zeus and Purple Jim like this.
  5. Willowman

    Willowman Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    That seems extremely unlikely....what makes you think that?
     
  6. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    The dead wax on all those records have exactly the same matrix numbers as the originals. In comparison to the digital remasters which have very different matrix numbers. my copy of still reissue with the hessian cover is exactly the same as the original right down to the matrix numbers, the text etc. Also, the label on the front of the album says nothing about being mastered from the 2007 digital files, which all the other releases do.

    hessian reissue matrix numbers:
    Matrix / Runout: FACT 40 A1 EG THE CHICKEN WON'T STOP P2 2564640321 A-1
    Matrix / Runout: FACT 40 B1 EG P2 2564640321 B-1 -< -< -< -< -< -<
    Matrix / Runout: FACT 40 C1 -< -< -< -< EG 2564640321 C-1
    Matrix / Runout: FACT 40 D1 EG THE CHICKEN STOPS HERE 2564640321 D1

    original matrix numbers (Only difference here is the pressing plant is named on the original)
    Matrix / Runout (Variation 3): FACT 40 A-I EG P3 ഗ0 TOWN HOUSE
    Matrix / Runout (Variation 3): FACT 40 B1 EG P3 = TOWN HOUSE
    Matrix / Runout (Variation 3): FACT 40 C1 EG Ѡ TOWN HOUSE
    Matrix / Runout (Variation 3): FACT 40 D1 EG P3 乞 TOWN HOUSE

    Matrix / Runout (Hand-etched A Side, All Variations): THE CHICKEN WON'T STOP
    Matrix / Runout (Hand-etched B Side, All Variations): -< -< -< -< -< -<
    Matrix / Runout (Hand-etched C Side, All Variations): -< -< -< -<
    Matrix / Runout (Hand-etched D Side, All Variations): THE CHICKEN STOPS HERE

    Digital remaster matrix numbers
    Matrix / Runout (Side A): 0825646183920-01 BF80311-01 A1 F.A. ABBEY ROAD
    Matrix / Runout (Side B): 0825646183920-01 BF80311-01 B1
    Matrix / Runout (Side C): 0825646183920-02 VII BF80311-02 C1
    Matrix / Runout (Side D): 0825646183920-02 IIεI BF80311-02 D1
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  7. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    Shadowplay live

     
    Pop_Zeus and Purple Jim like this.
  8. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bretagne
    Shadowplay - Yup. My favourite from the first album.
     
  9. Willowman

    Willowman Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Thanks - I bought those reissues and thought it was a nice touch that they mimicked the run-out groove inscriptions from the originals. I'll have to dig them out and have another look. I'd be amazed if they were the same plates.
     
  10. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter


    I'm sure they couldn't use the same matrix numbers as the originals with the digital remasters, that wouldn't be ethically correct and would just cause confusion. You'll notice very slight differences between the original and the reissue dead wax info and matrix numbers.... like the omission of TOWNHOUSE on the reissue as the reissue clearly wasn't pressed at Townhouse as that plant doesn't exist anymore. Also I think the original Unknown Pleasures and maybe Closer would have been PORKY PRIME CUTS, which again obviously they can't use anymore. But generally the rest of the information is the same. I would suggest that these repressings were't actually done with the original plates as they would have had the porky info etc on them. I suspect they re-cut them then re-scribed the info missing out the parts that are no longer relevant.

    The digital remasters are very different matrix numbers..... And bare no resemblance to the originals at all.
     
  11. Willowman

    Willowman Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    OK - so we’re agreed: not the original plates!
     
  12. onlyacanvasky

    onlyacanvasky Has anybody seen my cup of tea?

    I just got my UK discs out and FWIW, Unknown Pleasures and the Atmosphere 12" are Porky Prime Cuts but Closer isn't. They're all very dark red Tranco pressings. And I'm playing them all tonight I think!

    Unknown Pleasures:
    FACT-10 - OUTSIDE 1 B THIS IS THE WAY A PORKY PRIME CUT
    FACT 10 - INSIDE 1 A A PORKY PRIME CUT STEP

    Atmosphere:
    FACUS 2 A2 A PORKY PRIME CUT HERE ARE THE YOUNG MEN
    FACUS 2 A̶2̶ B2
    BUT WHERE HAVE THEY BEEN.

    On both sides Facus 2 and A/B2 is written in a different hand to Porky

    Closer:
    OLD BLUE? FACT 25 A1
    FACT 25 B-1
    "OLD BLUE?", "FACT 25 A1" and "FACT 25 B-1" are all written in different hands.
    FACT 25 A1 is written in the same hand as the non-Porky writing on Atmosphere.

    I can't speak to the runouts on Still, both my copies are Australian pressings: one cut by
    Otto Ruiter at EMI and one by Steve Smart at CBS after the distribution changed.

    The prices I paid for Closer and Atmosphere in 1997-9ish are still written on the labels in grey lead, and the sleeves unfortunately have the store stamp on the inside, as was their policy - but I'm still very glad to have them!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  13. lennonfan1

    lennonfan1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    baltimore maryland
    the box set definitely does not use digital remasters and checking with Discogs all dead wax information is exactly what is on the first pressings, including symbols (birds?) Old Blue?, This Is The Way, The Chicken Never Stops etc.
     
  14. Kassonica

    Kassonica Forum Resident

    Ashwoods :)

    I have a few records with that stamp I can tell you... Made me smile seeing that :)
     
    onlyacanvasky likes this.
  15. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter


    Except the townhouse and porky info etc... this suggests that they re-cut new plates from the analogue master tapes, but retained all the original matrix numbers and writing
     
  16. kaztor

    kaztor Music is the Best

    Definitely one of my favourite songs!
    It rocks and it shows that they were still with one foot firmly in their punk past. Ian seems to channel Jim Morrison here. I really dig Bernard’s work here, filling up the gaps with some splendid guitar fills.
    I also really like the RCA version of this, although I give the UP one the edge.
     
    bettsaj likes this.
  17. Willowman

    Willowman Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Yes - great attention to detail, but I think they’re copying what was on the originals rather than using the originals.
     
    bettsaj likes this.
  18. Pop_Zeus

    Pop_Zeus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southport, UK
    Shadowplay is one of my faves. Thanks for the Granada TV link. I love how in the Grant Gee documentary, they show the progress from that performance to the BBC Something Else ones, only months later, and also the way the cut between JD & NO performing Shadowplay many years apart. Also lets not forget the superb & ferocious Les Bains Douches live version



    Hope you don’t mind a quick question on the side, as Substance isn’t earmarked for discussion (as obviously all the songs had already been released when it came out and we’ll talk about all the tracks elsewhere) . . .

    Has anyone heard the 2015 Rhino Substance CD with grey sleeve / white & green lettering? I believe they used remastered tracks from the +/- singles box on it. It includes As You Said, for the first time, and 2 versions of LWTUA. Since joining this site, I am now slightly apprehensive when I see the term ‘remastered’ as it would appear that it’s not always for the better. I am wondering though, with the addition (finally) of As You Said, if this version will now be considered the definitive one. Thinking of getting it if it’s an improvement on the Factory original as long as it’s not insanely loud / compressed etc. Anyone heard it & can compare? Thanks
     
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  19. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    As a final discussion on this thread at the end we can have a general discussion around compilations, and alternative releases, different pressings, CD's etc...
     
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  20. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    Transmission and Atmosphere are neck and neck....... 39.3% each................. I know what one I don't want to win :uhhuh:

    They're both really good....... But one pips the post for me
     
  21. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    I know nothing about the 2015 Rhino Substance CD, so can't comment. i don't own Substance at all (Used to, but no more)
     
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  22. kaztor

    kaztor Music is the Best

    Warsaw (RCA) version of Shadowplay, which also appeared on the Heart And Soul box set:

     
    bettsaj likes this.
  23. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    Right..... I've just had a look and the US version is a Rhino release, the UK version is a "Vinyl Collector" version (Same as my Unknown Pleasures. They both have the same tracks (Obviously)... DOH!, just realised you were asking about the CD's. It's the same, US is Rhino but the UK is Cinram GmbH so made in Germany. I can't speak for the CD's but I suspect the Vinyl might be OK. I might treat myself to the UK double. it's reasonably priced.
     
  24. kaztor

    kaztor Music is the Best

    You rather dance to the radio or stay put, making sounds?
     
  25. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    I'd rather dance to the radio I think.......
     
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