Joy Division/New Order Albums

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Havoc, Mar 20, 2018.

  1. Havoc

    Havoc Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Looked over the forums and while the bands have been covered very well, I just couldn't find a thread introducing the releases by these two entities so I guess I'll patent the idea and welcome suggestions. The format would be a poll on albums followed by introductions of the releases and discussion. Personally I prefer the two bands in the same thread but am open to a separate thread for each. The releases to be introduced are:

    Joy Division:
    • Unknown Pleasures
    • Closer
    • Substance
    • Still
    I was tossing around the others but they might be so rare or obscure that only a select few can discuss in depth. There's a lot of non-album material out there that might bog down the discussion so I'd add based on suggestions and demand. These would be:
    • Warsaw
    • An Ideal for Living
    • Les Bains Douches
    • The Peel Sessions
    • Total
    • Permanent (Lots of compilations with some redundancy)
    • Martin Hannett's Personal Mixes
    • Heart and Soul
    • BBC Recordings
    Some possible areas of discussion:
    • The Manchester music scene
    • Factory records
    • Rob Gretton
    • Separation between Ian Curtis' lyrics and the band (apparently the lyrics were Ian's private business and they didn't pay too much attention to them)

    Was hoping for contributions from those familiar with Hannett's studio experimentation from a technical perspective as well as how it relates to the finished product in that many thought he was off his crumpet until they heard the album.

    Or we can just "stick to the music".

    Unknown Pleasures to be started tomorrow unless there are any objections.
  2. Retro Hound

    Retro Hound Forum Resident

    Pittsburg, KS
    Looking forward to this. I was way late to Joy Division. Someone in my younger days told me to look them up, but as they were "earlier New Order" and I hadn't had much luck with listening to earlier versions of most bands, I never followed up. Some time in my 30s and there's these things called the internet and blogs and I found a cool alternative music blog. He posted a fair amount of music, about 5 songs with each post (one or two posts per week), and I finally heard Joy Division and was super mad at myself for overlooking them for so long. I've got a couple of CDs now, and a download of Les Bains Douches. And I love the movies 24 Hour Party People and Control. I've also watched a documentary or two, but I couldn't give you the names of those off hand.
    Athalwolf, Rocat, vonwegen and 5 others like this.
  3. Havoc

    Havoc Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Nice post Sir Hound. Since my auto wreck and subsequent concussion my memory of things has been very unreliable but I think I first heard JD when I purchased this nifty box set of Movement on cassette which has a JD sampler taped to it and it just felt very familiar from first listen. I got teased ceaselessly for listening to them back then as they were dubbed "Suicidal Sounds" with plenty of people mocking Ian's vocals but back then they viewed him as just another "deep artist" type who took his art too seriously, obviously it was difficult to know the back story concerning the illness and the marital problems, not to mention the cocktail of death the doctors were giving him at the time.

    I'm glad people have come to view him more as a true tragic figure, a nice young man by most accounts who just had way more working against him than he was equipped to handle. Just listening to interviews with him should tell us that he was a pretty pleasant guy at times and the personal stories from Hooky paint the picture of a young man who was very considerate who was dealing with a crippling illness that was damaging him way more than he was willing to let on out of consideration of others. That's just the way I read it from many interviews....etc.

    I just watched both films over the weekend along with some material on the Manchester music scene around 1980 to the time the Stone Roses and Oasis popped up and realize that it would have been so interesting to have been around that scene at the time.
    dezz, nytechy, SinnerSaint and 5 others like this.
  4. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    New York
    I think Warsaw has to be part of the discussion - the band before Unknown Pleasures really was a different beast and while Substance does a good job, it doesn't have everything.

    Still waiting to hear how the hell The Him is using a Mellotron or not... :)
    Rocat and blaken123 like this.
  5. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Forum Resident

    Little Britain
    I went to see Warsaw play a very early gig. Too early - the first band on (a bit like The Eagles or Little Feat) played too long and Warsaw didn't have time to play!
    After that I saw them a few times and they were perhaps the worst of the Manchester bands (apart from The Worst!). At least The Drones and Slaughter & The Dogs got people poggoing (is that a word?). I even saw them during the last nights of The Electric Circus - immortalised on the 10" record "Short Circuit" with the song "At A Later Date".
    Then they seemed to disappear for a few months until they reappeared as Joy Division with the "An Ideal For Living" E.P. arrived. God, that was so good and it showed that they were now a band to be reckoned with.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
    Dbstay, Paul P., Jimbo912 and 26 others like this.
  6. Front 242 Addict

    Front 242 Addict "I'll drink the moonlight from your hands"

    Tel Aviv ,Israel
    Great thread idea:cool:

    I love Joy Division and New Order,I am familiar with them since I was A teen.
    Joy Division succeeded to create an Atmosphere of hypnotic Cold Beauty and power.
    I will never forget the first time that I heard the song I Remember Nothing, I felt hypnotized,
    the Dark atmosphere , the mesmerizing vocals/ chanting ,the brilliant sound effects during the last part of the song... it was my first Joy Division song that I heard, the second was Leaders of Man ... then I bought U.P and after that all their other Albums in their discography.

    I love new order, especially Movement Low-life ,Power Corruption & Lies , I love their singles!
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  7. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    I will follow this, nice idea. Actually just recently started listening to Unknown Pleasures in its entirety. I find the material quite uneven, but they made the most out of their limited technical skills and of course they were very influential with that dark type of post punk.
    deredordica and Purple Jim like this.
  8. yarbles

    yarbles Too sick to pray

    Agree, UP is very uneven and considerably overrated. About half of it is excellent, but Closer is the masterpiece.
  9. Havoc

    Havoc Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Consider it done.
  10. vette442

    vette442 Forum Resident

    I would certainly include the Peel Sessions EPs for JD and N.O. (two in the case of N.O.). I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that those were seen as essential pieces of the discography and evolution when they were issued.
  11. robertk

    robertk Forum Resident

    I really like their 12" singles. Those Joy division imports will set you back a few bucks. and everyone should have a 12" of Blue Monday and use it as a system test.
  12. Synthfreek

    Synthfreek Drum machines are not inherently evil.

    Austin, TX
    Might I suggest discussing Joy Division covers after input on their releases has ended? Lot of great ones throughout the years.
    noahjld, c-eling and Front 242 Addict like this.
  13. Havoc

    Havoc Forum Resident Thread Starter

    They are such an interesting entity, the history, the relationship to Factory and The Hacienda............ we have a "New Wave" band with a lead singer who, even though he can't sing much better than the average bloke, is the best singer for New Order that I can imagine............they sign to Quincy Jones' label to join Frank Sinatra, James Ingram, Patti Austin, don't really get all that rich because their record company is being pulled under by a club that is hugely successful but manages to lose money anyway. I love The New Order story documentary in that it's so unusual, the game show, the audience Q&A with the band sprinkled around, the "Sigourney Weaver" narration. I can't think of a band that sounds like them or is in the same ball field as New Order, they are as original as they come..................then add to this the fact they used to be Joy Division who, without any effort at all were impossibly cool.......not to mention hugely influential.
    Pancat, oldjollymon, adamos and 3 others like this.
  14. Havoc

    Havoc Forum Resident Thread Starter

  15. c-eling

    c-eling I never dreamed another way.

    Agreed Terry
    blaken123 likes this.
  16. Theslipperman

    Theslipperman Active Member

    Isle of sky
    I saw Revenge once if that’s any use ; )
    c-eling likes this.
  17. 808_state

    808_state Shine on you lazy diamond

  18. c-eling

    c-eling I never dreamed another way.

    Probably not. Think i'm the only fan of all the side bands, especially Hooks on this forum :laugh:
    Theslipperman likes this.
  19. Mbe

    Mbe Forum Resident

    A very foreboding journey from Darkness into the Light with lows of desperate despair (just thrown in for good measure), some rescued,
    some fall victim while others would fight for their survival taking a longer hard route along the stoney (cobbled) ground.

    The music is so unique and inextricably entwined with the surrounding landscape that was / is Manchester
    I saw people hold their hands in the air as it was finally a time of joyous celebration and a remembrance to all that went before.

    eXHuLMe - Old Hulme - History
  20. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    The Duke City
    You’re not - the only one side-material I’m not really familiar with is The Other Two’s.
    Giacomo Belbo and c-eling like this.
  21. Cereal Killer

    Cereal Killer Forum Resident

    I am a BIG Joy Division fan. I reckon I have spent more than $2k on their music over the years. Please keep this thread alive :)
  22. SJP

    SJP Forum Resident

    Unknown Pleasures is a stone cold classic, pun fully intended. I expect this to be a terrific thread with Havoc as our pilot!
    Pop_Zeus, Mr Day, SuntoryTime and 3 others like this.
  23. Surly

    Surly Bon Viv-oh-no-he-didn't

    Cleveland, OH
    Another soundtrack to my youth. All of it. First saw New Order in '89 on their big tour with Public Image Ltd., and Sugarcubes opening.

    I picked up the latest books by both Peter Hook and Bernard Sumner over the summer - 1 hardcover copy of each were both on clearance at a local bookstore in Pasadena. Just started the Peter Hook book; it will be interesting to hear 2 different sides to their story.

    I have an original "Blue Monday" 12" in the floppy disc sleeve, and I signed up for that website ages ago where the guy was trying to track every copy in existence.
  24. jeffmo789

    jeffmo789 Give The Gift of Music!

    New England
    I'm trying to figure out how? Their catalog isn't very large! Or are you collecting Argentinian pressings and those SHM platinum CDs from Japan that cost $100 apiece or whatever? :D
  25. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road

    both great bands.
    i have unknown pleasures, closer and best of joy division
    and lowlife, power corruption and lies and substance from new order.
    lowlife is one of my all time favourite albums

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