I am a huge fan of new order. I barely have ever listened to joy division besides 'love will tear us apart' singles, and remixes, and maybe a few other tracks. However, it is interesting in looking into the early history of joy division and what went on. So i will keep track of this discussion and wait until it gets around to new order discussions or maybe do that in a separate thread if it takes awhile. also, there's a lot of material for new order, so thats why it would be better to separate it out into another thread. a lot could be said about joy division also, so maybe it's better to just concentrate on that here. later -1
A few months ago I thought I would take a stab at a top 10 list of favourite songs (I quickly realised that this would be impossible). The first song that came to mind was Atmosphere.
First the album, followed with the EPs, singles and other recordings in the orbit of the respective album A Quick Synopsis of How Joy Division formed and came to record Warsaw, An Ideal for Living and ultimately Unknown Pleasures: Formed in 1976 Manchester by Peter Hook and Bernard Sumner after attending a Sex Pistols gig with some 40 odd other music fans and budding musicians such as Pete Shelley and Howard Devoto(The Buzzcocks) Mark Smith (The Fall), Martin Hannett and Tony Wilson (Factory Records) and Mick Hucknall (The Frantic Elevators and Simply Red), the "Stiff Kittens" as they were first known, became Warsaw after attracting singer Ian Curtis and drummer Stephen Morris (the following year). While operating as Warsaw in 1978, the band attracted the attention of RCA records and recorded what would have been their debut album with the working title of "Warsaw" but after finishing 5 tracks, the band decided to shelve the project after becoming dissatisfied with the post production and artistic direction RCA had taken with the tracks. 4 of the songs recorded for RCA had been recorded previously and these recordings became the band's first EP release under the name "Joy Division" with the title "An Ideal For Living". The EP and the band's live performances drew the attention of Tony Wilson who hosted a local TV show covering the British music scene and Rob Gretton, a local DJ who's dedication and enthusiasm contributed significantly to the band's early success and the subsequent success of New Order. After an appearance on Wilson's program where the brilliant track "Shadowplay" was introduced to the British audience in addition to Curtis' "unique" dance moves and a few contributions to early Factory records samplers recorded with Martin Hannett, the band entered the studio with Hannett in April of 1979 to record what would become "Unknown Pleasures". I personally believe the earth shook for just a moment that April. Unknown Pleasures- Joy Division 1979 Produced by Martin Hannett Engineer- Chris Nagle Cover design by Peter Saville The Band: Ian Curtis- Lead Vocals Bernard Sumner- Guitar and Synthesizer Peter Hook- Bass Guitar Stephen Morris- Drums and Percussion Side 1 Disorder Day of the Lords Candidate Insight New Dawn Fades Side 2 She's Lost Control Shadowplay Wilderness Interzone I Remember Nothing "Simply one of the best records ever made............." NME Even if you might disagree with this assessment, it's very hard to say that the album doesn't make an impact. From the moment you lay eyes on its with the basic chart of the radio waves emitted by a dying star printed in simple white on a simple jet black background, you strain to think whether you've seen anything like this on an album cover before. Was the cover a statement? Opinions vary but its designer will casually talk of it in the way one might speak of the color of a cereal box, regardless.......the cover just works. It works just like Hannett's "dark" and echoing production giving the very simple, straightforward yet intense performance contained in the albums grooves a sense of depth not found on many albums of its time. From the unusual song structure where guitar and bass.......and sometimes drums might actually carry the chorus to the unparalleled intensity of Ian Curtis' vocals, the album makes an impact on you. When I first heard it, I remember thinking "How can young men feel so intensely as to create something like this?" I was a teenager then and probably way into my emotions and trying to find meaning in anything but even now the album makes a statement. I honestly was let down to find that Hooky stated they were just wanting to knock out something and be the Sex Pistols, I couldn't reconcile the two but I think I get it now. From the opening quick snare intro, followed by the first time I've ever heard a bass guitar seem to sing the song in place of the vocalist......the album is startlingly original. The stop start guitar that almost does a call and respond with the vocals, the drum machine like time keeping of Stephen Morris and the intense baritone delivery all fed through space then back to the grooves of the album, Unknown Pleasures sounded unlike anything I had heard at the time and it's an album I turn to often to offer as an example to the uninitiated of how raw intensity flowing through microphones, audio cables and a soundboard controlled by a mad genius (we'll expand on this for sure) became a statement. The album stops time for me, I realize that sounds melodramatic but it actually does. I'm unaware of little else while this album is playing. I completely understand the sentiments of those who believe the album to be uneven and that Closer is far superior but I find the two to be extremely close in quality and this is one of the few albums that made me wish that I had been in that time, in that place because it's rare the stars align, the musicians and the singer and the producer.....even the man who designed the cover........to just make something like this. Note: I'm not going to inject too much in the way of reviews from journals or formal statements on the quality of the material in the hopes of avoiding almost forcing members to argue against those published opinions and to offer their own in the context of a new discussion although offering citations or mentioning reviews is perfectly fine. Hope that works for everyone. Everyone is encouraged to offer as much information on the album, the recording.....everything as they'd like. This is why I deliberately left the specifics out and just offered my own take. I'd like to leave the forum open for as many stories, citations....."asides" as possible instead of laying it all out there at the beginning.
It’s truly one of the best debuts in rock music for me. Bauhaus were my big childhood band in the post punk era, but IMO Unknown Pleasures is a much better debut than theirs. Not that it’s a contest, but it shows how good it is maybe, that its superiority is so obvious to me despite having big, long term love for Joy Division’s fellow non-London, Midlands to Northern England brethren Bauhaus.
Day of the Lords is my favorite song off the album; dark, foreboding but also catchy and well crafted musically. Never see it mentioned.
I saw the Boston area gigs for both of those NO tours. The first one (for Brotherhood) was disappointingly dull. The second was at an outdoor venue in late summer '87 and the band had a lot more energy, but were sloppy as hell.
It's impossible (IMO) to overstate the impact that Peter Saville's artwork had on both bands' image and marketing. These aren't just records, they are beautiful art objects.
My first introduction with Joy Division. Absolutely great album. Dark, Cold and beautiful at the same time. I can't find even one song that I don't like , I listen and enjoy from the all album but I have my big favorites: New Dawn Fades- the way the song evolves. During the second part of the song ... it sounds like explosion of feelings, Ian is crying, his vocals, the music... it's so powerful ! a combination of endless Pain and beauty . She’s Lost Control - the sounds, the robotic feeling , , Ian's voice accompanied by reverb effect, the combination creates a cold -paranoid atmosphere, it's reminds me Kraftwerk! like Kraftwerk from the Dark side, A brilliant song! I Remember Nothing- the mesmerizing vocals/ chanting ,the brilliant sound effects during the last part of the song, Such an hypnotic- dark atmosphere. When I listen to the song I always imagine someone walking in a very misty forest, he is trying to get out of the forest, he doesn't find the way out, then he sees a an old, dusty hut, he doesn't know that this is his last step.... Insight - the gloomy atmosphere , the Glorious electronic sounds!! Wilderness - The energy! the rhythm, Ian's vocals , Fantastic song Day of the Lords - you surrounded by waves of slow pain and frozen atmosphere , at the peak from 3:12 Ian's rage and pain just Dripping from your speakers into your room , it's so powerful! it's a perfect song.
I don't know of another band or musical entity with such an effective combination of audio and visual presentation. Joy Division and New Order were both impossibly cool IMO. Obviously the legend of having your singer hang himself adds to a mystique but I'm willing to bet they'd rather have Ian around. They just did it right and it was anything but contrived. They went in with a producer with a reputation for breaking up bands after he was done with them and came out with timeless albums, then they commissioned a graphic artist who just casually selected timeless visuals for their albums...........all the way through to Republic. OMD did it almost as well, obviously with the same art designer but Joy Division somehow, and with little effort it seems on the surface, put it together perfect.
Dripping from the speakers?!? I too love New Dawn Fades and I Remember Nothing, but strongly prefer the 12” version of SLC with added electronics!
The 12'' version is Amazing too ( from Substance) P.S .there are 2 versions of the 12'' SLC on Substance cds ,one with Drop out 0:14-0:17/// the other version without.//// The version without the Drop out 4:55 / I also heard the version with the drop out (4:46 version) and musically they have different ending
I love this band I have original UK copies of Unknown pleasures, closer and the Limited hession cover of still. Closer is in my top ten albums of all time, with U.P in my top 30.
I love Joy Division. I'm not sure how I first heard them, it may have been Blue Monday that led me to JD, but I've been a fan since the early 80s. I still have the copies of Closer and Unknown Pleasures that I bought in high school. I really like the first two New Order records but not much after that. I saw them on the Low-Life tour and again with Echo and the Bunnymen but had no interest in seeing them again. I've been listening to Movement a lot lately and never understand why some refer to it as the bad New Order. To me, it's the best thing they ever did outside of Blue Monday.
The biggest problem I have with joy division is ian curtis' voice. The band sounds fine, and as an early prototype to new order, i can understand the more rock oriented sound, then getting more progressive with the synthesizers. I just don't like the sound of his voice, i've listened to a borrowed copy of joy division's substance, and didn't make it through it. gave up after a couple of tracks, and skipped to the ones i did know. also, i came to look into joy division many years after i got into new order around 1983, and i was working backwards through their catalog. i was wary of what early joy division would sound like, but i did like movement by new order, which was a logical extension of what joy division would have gone on to sound like. also, the first version of 'ceremony'. maybe at some later point in the future, i might go back and give their catalog another try. later -1
I didn't like Joy Division much at all when I first heard them. Then I came back a few years later. I was older, life was more difficult and frustrating at that time. One spin of their two albums and everything clicked! Been a fan since.
The single was miles better, agreed. I also love the live version from the BBC broadcast... the band was on fire!
I knew nothing about either group until I made friends with a guy from LA my second year in college (1985). He had one of the original Sony CD walkman units, and he let me have a listen to it, playing New Order's Low Life, which I loved from the first moment hearing it. He then proceeded to tell me the whole story of Joy Division/New Order, and it wasn't long before I owned each band's entire catalog. I still love them both (though I got off the NO train around Technique), but to me Joy Division is the better group, and that's down to the artistry of Ian Curtis. The history of rock has a smattering of artistic geniuses, and I definitely regard him as one of the greatest.
I picked up UP in the early 80s and listened to only that LP for a whole week. No other LP had done that to me before. (I was buying and listening to a ton of music back then.) My favorite tune is Interzone.
It does take some getting used to and I'll be dogged if I know how he summons that voice given the pleasant way he speaks casually. I wish I could find some video of an interview with him or something just showing who he was in casual contact. It's very hard to reconcile the person with the voice. If you hear the Warsaw recordings, his voice seems much more "human", it seems the Hannett production did give it much more depth. It works well for me, the album just stuck with me from the start, everything about it just worked and his voice was very complimentary and essential to the raw power of the music, as basic as it was with respect to the simplicity of the progression and chords. They just did it right whether they were that aware of it or not.
I bought Warsaw a few weeks ago based on what I was reading in this forum and was surprised to hear Ian Curtis almost melodious in parts.
