Joy Division on CD

So the best version is a Canadian version? Does anyone have a link to this on Amazon or anything?
I was just listening to the version of the CD I bought a years ago, maybe in 2008 I'm guessing, from import CDs, and they sent me this German pressing I did not ask for and was too lazy or something to return it, catalog number is 3984 28223-2. I do not know how others compare to this or vice-versa.

EDIT: I can't afford to shell out big bucks if this is some collector's item....

 

The Unknown Pleasures German cd you have is the 1999 cd London records , it is a reissue of the London 1992 cd (the same mastering)
the cd you have has also the same mastering as the original Factory 1986 cd , the only difference that all tracks from the Factory cd have 100% peak levels and the London records cd 1992 , 1999 have 97.9% peak levels for all the tracks.

The canadian cd is very rare , the Us original
Qwest cd has very different sound from the cd you have , I like them both.

 

The Canadian version is excellent, but it's a real challenge to find one. There's no amazon ASIN for it, and the barcode isn't in the ebay database. Last time for sale on discogs was 5 years ago.
I was very lucky to find mine, I was browsing every Unknown Pleasures CD on sale in ebay Canada and I happened to find one with the right catalogue number stated in the ad. I could have spent months looking for it.

The common London CD is good too. The differences between it and the Canadian CD are subtle enough. You'd have to get the Qwest or a japanese mastering for a significant difference.

 

I thought the Canadian Unknown Pleasures was still in print. Is that not the case?

 

No, it isn't.

Canadian Closer has a more recent canadian reissue (1999) that might still be in print, but the other 3 1987 canadian CDs (with Substance and Still) are OOP (the common CDs here are the London ones for these 3).

 

The 1999 Closer is still in print, it's actually easily available in HMV's 3 for $15 promotion just now.

 

Does anyone know when the first edition CD for Still was issued? On discogs, all CD editions are 1990 or later, except for the canadian edition, with a 1987 date. I wonder if it's a mistake of if Still really had an earlier issue here (with maybe a unique mastering?)

 

I just got the chance to hear the Closer CD from the 1991 Japanese box set, it is soooo much better than my original FACT CD which is somewhat thin & harsh in comparison. I haven't had a chance to hear UP yet but it looks like I'll be going home with a USB stick

 

I was regularly going to stores that sold imports at that time and the first time I remember seeing Still on CD was the Japanesse 2CD set. The UK single CD came out maybe six months or a year later? I definitely would have picked up a Canadian Still CD if I had seen it in 1987 but it's possible that it didn't make it's way into stores I frequented or maybe Discogs has bad info.

 

Yeah James, not sure how the discogs submissions came up with their years, they claim 1989 on the US SRC pressings, I don't remember seeing it at shops that early, I grabbed mine in 92, still have the long box art it came in

 

I have Closer and would like to get nice-sounding CD copies of UP and Substance. I'm not a super-serious audiophile, but I do like to avoid releases that are heavily compressed. If I don't want to shell out lots of $ for the Japanese 25CY UP and 30CY version of Substance, what are the next best-sounding CD versions? Are there really any major differences among the other early, readily available versions? Sounds like I might be OK with a Qwest UP, but what about Substance? Or should I just get Heart and Soul and not worry about getting separate releases for either? How interesting/worthwhile are the rarities and live stuff on Heart and Soul? Do they stand up to repeated listening, or are they more for the serious JD devotee?

 

US Qwest did a nice job all around on the issues for Joy Division and New Order, in my opinion
As a casual JD fan they suited me fine and I have not felt the need to look further

 

Seconded!

 

Just get the Heart and Soul box set.

 

I have skipped through this thread trying to find out if the Japanese CY-4205 pressing of Still is definitive, or can you do better? I have the 25CY's hence my interest.

Cheers

 

It's very interesting that there are such Significant differences in terms of sound between Unknown Pleasures Qwest cd 1989 and Unknown Pleasure European cds 1992 cd ,1999 cd , Factory cd = same mastering .
( Qwest = laid back sound ) and the European cds much more forward sound ( I love both the US mastering and the Europe mastering)

But regarding Closer, although the peak levels are a bit different between the Qwest and the European cds the sound is very similar! same treble , very hard to hear real differences.

 

I've got the Qwest NO 'Power' & 'LowLife' and agree they sound very different from the UK Factory pressings.

 

Sorry, please ignore this post. I made a mistake comparing

 

Right, compared the two CDs properly now! Actually, they sound incredibly similar. I still think the 1999 London CD is better, it just seems to have a pinch more detail and info. For example, on "New Dawn Fades", where Curtis' sibilants mix with the reverb, on the London CD you can pick out the difference between the two overlapping sounds, whereas on the Qwest CD it sounds like they mush together a bit. Perhaps a result of tape generational loss?

Worth mentioning that the source of my polarised review above was a loose coaxial cable between my transport and DAC. I wanted to back up what I was hearing with a frequency graph, but when I compared the tracks the graphs were practically identical so I knew something must be wrong on my playback end. Reconnecting the cable fixed it.

 

Revisiting some of this. For Still, I have these EAC numbers from earlier in the thread, maybe some of my own, I can confirm that tonight:

Code:

US Qwest/Reprise WEA 97.7 93.5 97.7 97.7 97.7 97.7 97.7 97.7 97.7 92.8 97.7 97.7 97.7 97.7 97.7 97.7 97.7 97.7 92.7 84.8
Centredate:          99.9 95.7 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 97.7 97.7 92.8 97.7 97.7 97.7 97.7 97.7 97.7 97.7 97.7 92.7 84.8
Jpn CY & UK Nimbus:  99.9 95.7 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 94.9 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 94.9 86.7
Jpn box:            100.0 92.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 99.9 96.7 100.0 100.0 100.0 95.8 100.0 98.7 98.6 96.1 89.8 94.0 88.0 79.2

The first three are all the same, with some level shifts in there. But the Jpn box COCY-9331 does not appear to be the same mastering as the Jpn CY-4205/6 set. ??

[I can't really get the formatting to work better than this, unless I put in a picture, but let's try this first.]

 

Ahhh, maybe here's another clue that they are different:

Joy Division - 1977 - 1980

CD1: ℗ 1979 Factory Communications Ltd.
Cat# on disc: COCY-9329(CY-3101) Total Time 38:21
CD2: ℗ 1980 Factory Communications Ltd.
Cat# on disc: COCY-9330(CY-3102) Total Time 44:03
CD3: ℗ 1981 Factory
Cat#: COCY-9331 Total Time 72:10
CD4: ℗ + © 1988 Factory Communications Limited
Cat# on disc: COCY-9332(CY-2281) Total Time 62:22

Still is the 3rd disc. It does not say, (CY-4205/6) after the COCY-9331. So maybe the box has a unique mastering. Sucks that it's so expensive then.

 

Having never been satisfied with the digital offerings for Closer I did a volume matched headphone comparison (Grado SR60) between those that I own plus a good quality rip of the original UK vinyl and here are my findings...

The releases I compared are ordered below according to their sonic characteristics:

1. Original UK Factory CD (FACD XXV) [shares the same mastering as the London Records/CentreDate reissues in the 1990s] - similar to the UK vinyl, but brighter
2. Original UK Factory vinyl (FACT∙XXV)
3. 1999 Canada CD (2 28219) [reissue of the 1987 Canada release and shares the same mastering) - tames the brightness of the UK Factory CD, but unfortunately sacrifices the air
4. 1991 Japan CD (COCY-9330) from 1977-1980 boxset [shares the same mastering as 25CY-3102] - tames the top-end, but also boosts the bottom-end

Conclusions:
The original UK vinyl is my preferred choice. It sits neatly between the UK and Canada CDs (#1 and #3). It doesn't feature the brightness found on the UK CD and retains the air that the Canada CD lacks. For me, the digital offerings introduced flaws that the vinyl mastering doesn't have. In summary, the vinyl sounds balanced. Put simply, it sounds right.

The Japan mastering seems to get a lot of praise here, but I don't like it. The EQ is heavy-handed and it's my least favourite mastering of the four listed here. Your mileage may vary of course.

If vinyl isn't an option then perhaps the UK CD is the best choice, but it would benefit from having the treble adjusted. I don't own the US Qwest CD, but I understand that it sounds similar to the original UK Factory CD and shares the same brightness.

I love Closer and my long search to find a mastering that I'm happy with is now over. If this posting helps you in any way with your search then my time has been well spent.

 

I also did a comparison for the Substance compilation some time ago, but forgot to share my views so here they are now...

Two volume matched digital offerings were compared on Grado SR60 headphones:

1. Original UK Factory CD (Facd250) [shares the same mastering as the Canada CD release]
2. 1988 Japan CD (30CY-2281) [shares the same mastering as the COCY-9332 release featured in the Japan 1977-1980 boxset]

Conclusions:
The brightness of the drums on the UK CD is distracting. The Japan CD is my preferred choice because it tames that brightness and, in my opinion, sounds better balanced as a result.

Brightness is a feature on both of the original UK Factory CD releases of Closer and Substance. It appears the engineer(s) who worked on the Japan releases attempted to rectify this with mixed results. Closer was re-EQ'd more aggressively and I would have preferred the lighter touch that was given to Substance.

 

Thanks for both of your comparisons of Closer and Substance. One new version must now be taken into account regarding Substance, however - the 2015 remaster that is sourced from the excellent "+ - Singles" masterings from 2010.

Joy Division - Substance

Joy Division - + - Singles 1978-80

 

I think the Singles set sounds excellent, so I've given up on worrying about which Substance sounds best. The new Substance I think is mostly the same (as The Singles) except for their Frankensteined version of "She's Lost Control" where they spliced on the ending from the other mix.