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Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures 40th Anniversary Limited Edition

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by bettsaj, May 8, 2019.

  1. Rufus Oculus

    Rufus Oculus Active Member

    Location:
    Birmingham
    Just spotted your posts. Interesting. As I have both versions I will dig them out and report back.
     
  2. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    I have a really good needle drop of a 79 1st pressing, and comparing it to the new 40th release there is a difference....... I wouldn't say the new re-press is bad, just different. As @Rufus Oculus said, it's not the record I've been lightening to for the last 40 years.
     
    Rufus Oculus likes this.
  3. peskypesky

    peskypesky Forum Resident

    Location:
    Texas
    OMFG. I just tried watching it. HORRIBLE. Who is behind these?
     
  4. peskypesky

    peskypesky Forum Resident

    Location:
    Texas
    i've been listening to it for almost 40 years and I bet i couldn't tell the difference between pressings.
     
  5. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter


    To be honest, you wouldn't if you listened to them in isolation... but back to back I think you can.

    I have both the 2017 digital vinyl remaster of Closer, and an original pressing in near mint condition... The difference is very marked on that album specifically to the point I gave the repress away to my son.
     
  6. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    Can someone please post the dead wax etchings for the US release... Curious to know if it's the same as the UK or different
     
  7. Rufus Oculus

    Rufus Oculus Active Member

    Location:
    Birmingham
    Just listened to my 1979 original and this red vinyl 40th reissue back to back and I still discern a difference. It seems Hannett's production techniques of reverb, delay and panning have been "tamed" somewhat on the new release. It sounds a little less "dub" to me compared to the original. Interzone is the track where I hear most difference. On the original the guitar on the most straight ahead punk song on the album is placed hard left by Hannett to create a sense of space in the mix. On this new version the guitar has moved into the centre of the mix. The reissue is far from a travesty and new fans may prefer its mix. I just prefer the original with added reverb.
     
  8. Neve 8078

    Neve 8078 Active Member

    Location:
    48026
    just got a US 40th in ruby - dead wax: (please excuse my eyesight is terrible and they were hard to see) -

    08256467x3706/3G77559-07 3

    BE77559OA A2/0825646A83906
    F.A.

    HTH
     
  9. Black Stripes

    Black Stripes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Thank you!

    I'm quite sure
    08256467x3706/3G77559-07 3
    is actually
    0825646183906 BE77559-01

    BE77559OA A2/0825646A83906
    F.A.
    is actually
    BE77559-01 A2/0825646183906
    F.A.

    Which would mean same plates as Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures

    What do you think?
     
  10. Man at C&A

    Man at C&A Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    I've only just found out about these and watched Insight, Interzone and now Day of the Lords. What the **** is going on? Awful!

    The music still sounds incredibly powerful.
     
  11. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter


    Looks the same to me...
     
  12. Neve 8078

    Neve 8078 Active Member

    Location:
    48026
    @blackstripes - i reckon - i seem to remember @bettsaj saying the US plates were better than the UK ones, so maybe the 40th ruby is the frank stampers? - my brain hurts...
     
  13. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter


    Frank signs his dead wax.... if you have FA on the dead wax, that's a Frank Arkwright... If it hasn't got FA, then someone else mastered it. My 2007 US Rhino copy doesn't have FA on the dead wax but it does have all the original writing as found on the 1979 pressings, the 2007 UK remasters did have FA on the dead wax so were mastered by a different engineer.

    It looks to me that they used the UK 2007 stampers for both the UK and US Ruby release. It's different to the 2007 US release.

    The mix is different between the original 1979 pressing and the Ruby.


    For clarity here are the dead wax etching from the UK and the US releases:

    US 2007
    • Matrix / Runout (Outside Etchings): S-61344 73395-1-A This is the way FACT 10 Outside-1
    • Matrix / Runout (Inside Etchings): S-61345 73395-1-B Step FACT 10 Inside-1

    UK 2007
    • Matrix / Runout: 2564640151 A-2
    • Matrix / Runout: 2564640151 B-2
    UK 2015
    • Matrix / Runout (Side A - variation 1): 0825646183906 BE77559-01 A2 3+ F.A.
    • Matrix / Runout (Side B - variation 1): 0825646183906 BE77559-01 B1
    • Matrix / Runout (Side A - variation 2): 0825646183906 BE77559-01 A2 F.A. T=ε
    • Matrix / Runout (Side B - variation 2): 0825646183906 BE77559-01 B1 V+T
    • Matrix / Runout (Side A - variation 3): 0825646183906 BE77559-01 A2 3=x F.A.
    • Matrix / Runout (Side B - variation 3): 0825646183906 BE77559-01 B₁ V∧≺
    • Matrix / Runout (Side A - variation 4): 0825646183906 BE77559-01 A2 F.A.
    • Matrix / Runout (Side B - variation 4): 0825646183906 BE77559-01 B1 +V∧
    • Matrix / Runout (Side A - variation 5): 0825646183906 BE77559-01 A2 F.A. 3=-
    • Matrix / Runout (Side B - variation 5): 0825646183906 BE77559-01 B1 VV=
    US 2015
    • Matrix / Runout (Side A runout etched, variant 1): BE77559-01 A2 FA 5+ 0825646183906
    • Matrix / Runout (Side B runout etched, variant 1): BE77559-01 B1 0825646783906
    • Matrix / Runout (Side A runout etched, variant 2): BE77559-01 A2 F.A. 5+ 0825646183906
    • Matrix / Runout (Side B runout etched, variant 2): BE77559-01 B1 0825646183906 T1

    UK/US Ruby
    • Matrix / Runout (Runout, etched, side A): BE77559-01 A2 0825646183906 F.A.
    • Matrix / Runout (Runout, etched, side B): BE77559-01 B1 0825646183906
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
    Echoes Myron likes this.
  14. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    Judging by those dead wax matrix codes... It looks like frank didn't do the remasters until 2015
     
  15. Neve 8078

    Neve 8078 Active Member

    Location:
    48026
    @bettsaj tx for the clarification - so in your opinion, is the UK 2007 or US 2007 the better SQ?
     
  16. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter


    I've not heard the UK 2007. I had the UK 2015 Frank remaster, and then bought the US 2007 and gave the 2015 Frank pressing to a charity shop. The package as a whole is better in the US 2007 remaster. The dead wax etchings are the same as the original pressing (save for the inclusion of the bar code number) and also, the US 2007 pressings are the same as the In Memory box set. All the 2007 US repressings are accurate down to the dead wax.

    As far as sound goes, I like the sound of the US 2007 pressings.... I can't put my finger on it, but there is a difference between the UK 2015 and the US 2007 pressings. I agree with the previous poster about the track Interzone. Using that track as a guide, I A/B tested my 2019 Frank Ruby Repress against the 2007 US pressing and the Ruby definitely has the guitar centred in the audio picture, where the US 2007 pressing has the rhythm guitar mixed to the left and the lead guitar mixed to the right.... The US 2007 sounds more ambient to me, and the 2019 remix sounds more "in your face" with less reverb. Also the 2019 sounds a lot brighter than the US 2007 to my ears, which would certainly support a digital remastering process. The US 2007 I believe is analogue.

    Just as a heads up, the original 1979 pressing has the guitar mixed opposite to the US 2007 repress. The main rhythm guitar is mixed to right, with the second lead guitar mixed to left.... Just to confuse things even more!

    Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
    c-eling likes this.
  17. c-eling

    c-eling I never dreamed another way.

    ^That would be interesting if it was analog
    Going by the US 2007 Closer, this puppy's 44 digital
     
  18. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    I've just realised my mistake.... "It looks to me that they used the UK 2007 stampers for both the UK and US Ruby release. It's different to the 2007 US release."... I meant to say US 2015 stampers
     
  19. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    I don't know if the US 2007 pressing is definitely analogue... I was told a while back it was (can't remember where, or by whom)... Certainly the 2015 Closer is nothing like the original pressing, which I have. What I do know is the blurb on the 2007 US stickers says "remastered from the original master tapes". I do know that in 2007 *someone* at Warners was tasked with remastering them for a reissue campaign and the remastering job was awful, very loud "loudness wars" mastering. The band weren't too enamoured by that and requested Warners to go back to the original tapes which is what the 2007 vinyl reissues were.

    This info came up in the Joy Division day by Day thread ages ago.,,,, It was offered by someone who was directly involved with the reissue campaign back in 2007
     
    jimhb and c-eling like this.
  20. m300

    m300 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MCR
    They're all remastered from digital files transferred from two master reels (A side and B side).
     
  21. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter


    Then they f***ed up then and accidentally swapped the left and right channels around on the 2007 represses opposite to the originals. The 2015 are different.
     
  22. Neve 8078

    Neve 8078 Active Member

    Location:
    48026
    @bettsaj tx once again; hmmm, if there's one producer that'd be rolling around in his grave that the sound was "in your face" and less ambient on one of his re-masters, it'd have to be Hannett; I believe he was running 3 AMS DMX 15-80's across most of this album in one way shape or form. That reminds me of the true story of how when he first heard about the 15-80 he was so desperate to get one that he got either Nevison or Crabtree (can't remember which) to meet him on the A56 one day where one of the devices was surreptitiously handed over with Hannett then scuttling back to Cargo in Rochdale to fire it up... Probably fair to say without the 15-80, Unknown Pleasures wouldn't have sounded the way it did...

    Oh and I hate bright, SSL, NS-10's and people like Clearmountain have got a lot to answer for...
     
  23. jimhb

    jimhb Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO, USA
    I have an original and the 07 and 19 pressings but I am unable to do an spectrum analysis of these releases. I would love it if someone with the US 07 and the 2019 could do an analysis.

    Having said this, the best version I have is the original Porky UK pressing. It is amazing, but I am also fond of the others.
     
    c-eling likes this.
  24. c-eling

    c-eling I never dreamed another way.

    I don't doubt at all the old Porky is the way to go :)
    I only have Closer on vinyl Jim-07
    Here's a SPEK of Passover
    [​IMG]
     
    Neonbeam likes this.
  25. stenway

    stenway Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Any thread about the new red vinyl? is a new remaster or something? sounds better than previous releases? etc... ? I can't find the thread.
     

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