Judy Garland / Nat Cole / Peggy Lee etc. EMI UK twofers question for Steve et al.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by ArneW, Feb 22, 2002.

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  1. ArneW

    ArneW Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cologne, Germany
    Hi,

    1) I learned from the HMV.co.uk web site that EMI UK has announced some more Judy Garland and Nat Cole twofers (e.g. "That's Entertainment/I Could Go On Singing"). Kind of weird they'll do a "Judy/Miss Show Business" disc with the "Judy/Judy In Love" twofer already being out!?!

    2) I have the wonderfully made 3-disc Judy Garland U.S. box set from 1992. By far the worst sounding recordings on this box are those from the "I Could Go On Singing" sessions. In fact, the booklet was the first for me to state that the tapes had to be "baked in a convection oven" to be playable (How ridiculous! All Hoffmanites know by now that this means they did not use the 1963 master tapes but an inferior non-whale-oil-copy from the 1970s :) ). The sound they did produce with these tapes was horrible - just listen to "Bye Bye Blackbird"! Aargh! Other transfers from the set were superb, although at times with an ear-bleeding top end ("You'll never walk alone"). What happened to the "I Could Go On Singing" master, though? I have a spanish LP that has been issued around 1982 in a series called "Historia della Musica en el cine" or so - it sounds quite good, much better than the U.S. box set, although the ultra dirty pressing is an insult to the WTRP every time I play it. Do you know anything on that topic, Steve?

    2a) Anyhow, this is of rather academic interest only. My girlfriend does not allow me to play Judy Garland in the house any more since she had to "sit through" the (very underground) "Judy Garland Speaks" set I bought in Monterey last year. Has someone here heard it?

    3) I was not amused to learn from the booklet that the Dean Martin twofer "Dino/Cha Cha De Amor" has been transferred from (heavily distorted) vinyl and then cedarized and no-noised to death. Why would someone do that? Can't EMI UK just order a fifth-generation tape from Hollywood and Vine? That would have sounded much better.

    4) The sound quality of the EMI twofers is inconsistent and often, uh, sucks. But sometimes it can be shockingly good (Julie London: "Sophisticated Lady/For The Night People"). But which ones are good and which ones are to avoid? I'd be glad to hear about this. How are the Nat Cole twofers? Does anyone have the "Latin ala Lee/Olé ala Lee" CD? Although I have the fantastic DCC issue of "Latin", I feel I need the UK twofer just for the completion of "Olé".

    5) Another one for Steve: How about some Judy Garland that has not been reissued over and over in the last 20 years? I'm thinking of "Gay Purr-ee" (mono please) and "At Home At The Palace, Opening night".

    Arne
     
  2. martinimaster

    martinimaster New Member

    Location:
    east coast
    How bout Unforgetable?
     
  3. ArneW

    ArneW Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cologne, Germany
    The Intimate Miss Christy / Sinatra q. for Steve

    I just saw they also make a June Christy twofer with "The Intimate Miss Christy" on it. Probably I'm gonna get this one, because my japanese LP is scratchy. Wonderful record, with Al Viola at the guitar: Quite reminiscent of the rare Frank Sinatra recordings which are accompanied by Viola's solo guitar ("Night And Day" from Sinatra & Sextet; great recording!). BTW, Steve, the Reprise CD (Sinatra & Sextet) sounds somewhat sterile in a strange way, as if it had been heavily processed. What does the original tape sound like? The Trama/Artanis London 1962 release sounds even worse, not at all like a professional recording. Do you know if there are "quality tapes" from this venue sitting in some L.A. WB vault?

    Arne
     
  4. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    ArneW,

    I'll keep it brief, because a book could be written about this stuff.:) To answer your questions in backwards order:

    The live Sinatra stuff you speak of is not sitting in a pile somewhere at WB marked "Do Not Use" I'm sorry to say....

    EMI UK uses three kinds of tapes to master this stuff: British copy tapes of US Capitol stuff made in the old days, DAT or 1630 clones of US Capitol digital transfers and new digital US transfers of old US stereo Capitol mixes.

    Now, most of this Judy stuff was mixed with way too much echo. That's history I guess, though this is one artist that can do without all that echo. It makes her sound totally out of control and on the edge, so when played, it makes one think of jumping off a bridge. I really hate that sound!

    SHAMELESS PLUG TIME:

    Our new Judy two-fer "Alone" and "Judy In Love" will really wonderful. Judy will be alive again. Trust me!

    Our great friends at Capitol USA are bending over backwards to help Sam and I get the correct master tapes and we can't thank them enough!

    SAD FACT TIME:

    I've actually seen old master tapes from the 1950's and 1960's with "THIS TAPE WAS BAKED ON 1/6/98" stickers on them. ARGHHHHHH!!!! They are AUTOMATICALY BAKING EVERYTHING NOW REGARDLESS OF IF THEY NEED IT OR NOT!

    So ArneW, they might have indeed baked some 1963 Judy masters. Ah well!

    As for "Gay Purr-ee", Rod McKuen and Stanyan Records controls that title, and believe it or not, I prepared a CD version of that for DCC around 1993 remixed from the original three-channel mag 35mm fullcoat. AMAZING SOUND! We had some problem with one of the artists signing off, so the project was scrapped!


    :(
     
  5. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    I'll bet that this is standard practice to ensure an incompetent or unskilled engineer does not ruin a tape. "Bake 'em all, to be sure!" type stuff. Would unnecessary baking damage the tape or shorten it's lifespan?

    Steve, does this also mean that new engineers have no formal training about older master tapes? Even I can become an engineer - although I'm deaf in one ear and can't hear out of the other? ;)

    *sigh*
     
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Gary,

    Yes and yes!:(
     
  7. AudioGirl

    AudioGirl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Well, that's depressing!
     
  8. BradOlson

    BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven

    The only EMI UK twofer I have is Red Simpson's "Man Behind The Badge" and "Roll Truck Roll." The sound quality is excellent, if not the most spectacular sounding CD ever but it does contain lots of classic truck drivers country and although it doesn't have I'm a Truck on it, it has lots of classic truck drivers's country music. For "I'm a Truck," check out Razor & Tie's "The Best of Red Simpson: Country Western Truck Drivin' Singer" which does duplicate many of the songs on the twofer but it is a good disc to add to your collection anyway for more of his music.
     
  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Sure, it's simple. If the master tape sounds good, an EMI CD made from it, with little or no tampering, will still sound good.

    The ADVANTAGE in trying the British EMI reissue CD's, is that SOME of them skip the No-Noise thing, and just do a flat transfer of the tape. Of course, it's a crapshoot. Some are dreadful. Some are ok, though. Now, if the tape is an old Judy Garland, drenched in echo, that ain't so hot, but if it is something from any of the other EMI labels (Liberty, UA, etc.) it might sound good, like Bradley states...
     
  10. MaxinLV

    MaxinLV New Member

    Location:
    Las Vegas
    If I may offer some corrections/information.

    Although EMI/U.K. does have some new twofers coming, the Judy Garland ones are not part of that series. These (MISS SHOW BUSINESS/JUDY and I COULD GO ON SINGING/THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT!) are being released by the U.S. Collectables label (March 19), as part of a new agreement with Capitol. (Collectables has a similar arrangement with BMG/RCA Victor, which will -- finally! -- see the CD release of LENA HORNE LIVE AT THE SANDS/AT THE WALDORF ASTORIA, two terrific live '50s recordings by the legendary performer.)

    It's a minor point, but the SINATRA & SEXTET CD was not released by Reprise -- it is on Capitol/Jazz or Blue Note, having been recorded (but not previously released) during Sinatra's Capitol years.

    Regarding the Garland GAY PURR-EE soundtrack, I asked Turner Entertainment's George Feltenstein about this, because he included the "Little Drops of Rain" track on his Rhino compilation JUDY GARLAND IN HOLLYWOOD: HER GREATEST MOVIE HITS (which also has the Capitol-licensed "I Could Go On Singing," "Hello, Bluebird" and "By Myself," from the I COULD GO ON SINGING soundtrack album). Feltenstein said GAY PURR-EE will be issued on CD, either from Rhino or its Handmade division, and that when he used "Little Drops" it was determined Rod McKuen's Stanyan Records does not "control" the GAY PURR-EE album -- his licensing agreement (which has expired) was for Garland's tracks only, for the LP compilation MORE THAN A MEMORY, and in any case would not extend to a CD release.

    Steve -- I'm almost afraid to ask if there will be new notes for your JUDY IN LOVE/ALONE CD, and who is writing them.

    Max
     
  11. TSmithPage

    TSmithPage Ex Post Facto Member

    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Would you mind telling me more about the Nat King Cole reissues? I'm a big fan, and thinking of ordering them. Where do you look to find the information on the new reissues? How many are there?
     
  12. Mitch Kaufman

    Mitch Kaufman New Member

    Location:
    USA
    Well, I hope it's better than the Perry Como series they've released, which is--to put it charitably--excruciatingly awful.

    BTW, speaking of Nat Cole, whatever happened to that Capitol box set? I never got around to buying it, and it seems to have been long OOP. I simply can't imagine that an artist of Cole's stature has no box set devoted to him by his own label. Is something else on the way? Is the old box worth looking for used?

    MK
     
  13. MaxinLV

    MaxinLV New Member

    Location:
    Las Vegas
     
  14. ArneW

    ArneW Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cologne, Germany
    Sinatra and Sextet

    MaxinLV wrote:

    "Sinatra and Sextet" is a live set recorded in Paris in 1962. It has been released by Reprise Records in the early 90s but is now withdrawn in the U.S., I think. The CD you are referring to, MaxinLV, is the 1959 live set which was recorded in Australia in 1959 with Red Norvo's combo. This one has indeed been released by Blue Note/Capitol Jazz. Sorry!

    Arne :D
     
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