Jugband Blues 2010 Mix

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Dr Lord X, Feb 9, 2024.

  1. Dr Lord X

    Dr Lord X Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Manchester
    The only version of Saucerful of Secrets I own is the European 1994 CD which features the 1992 remaster. Last night I was listening to the Early Years 1967-1972 CD and it features Jugband Blues (2010) mix. The difference is absolutely night and day when put alongside the the 1992 remaster. I am guessing the 2010 remix version on the Early Years set is taken from the 2011 Discovery Edition? If so I need to buy a copy sharpish!! I have a few of the Discovery CD's. Are they all that much of an improvement? Thanks in advance for all help / comments.
     
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  2. SilverBottomSavior

    SilverBottomSavior Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hershey, PA
    It's not from any previous Pink Floyd release. It was a remix made by David Gilmour for "An Introduction To Syd Barrett" that wasn't used, as well as all of the other Syd era remixes on that box.

    They didn't pull any new multi-tracks for the "Early Years" box. It was all stuff that was lying around. As a result, there are interesting outtakes and alternate mixes still in the vault that weren't used (despite what people think).
     
  3. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    OP may want to get a Gort to rename the thread title to inform casual surfers that this is about Pink Floyd
     
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  4. Dr Lord X

    Dr Lord X Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Manchester
    Cheers for the info. I was not aware at all so thanks. Quick question....is the Discovery CD a good improvement over the 1994 CD? Cheers.
     
  5. ZiltoidtheOmniscient

    ZiltoidtheOmniscient Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon
    I new what it was about before I clicked... do I get a prize... hint, hint, hint, Steve.
     
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  6. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    Not a substantial one, no. The Doug Sax remaster (I have the EMI Canada pressing) has more 'warts' and thus feels like possibly a truer representation of what's on the tape; the Guthrie/Plante Discovery remaster is a bit smoother in the EQ yet noticeably louder (including some unfortunate peak clipping, which is not on the 2021 hi-res download of their remaster). If you have to have one CD, get the Sax, and if you're curious about Guthrie/Plante's take on it, get the hi-res files
     
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  7. Groovinthedark

    Groovinthedark Forum Resident

    There's only one Jugband blues, and those who know and love it have a deep knowledge of the curious amazing genius of Mr Barrett.
     
  8. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Island Owner

    Location:
    Europe
    The Discovery box set has the original (1967) mix of 'Jugband Blues' in there, remastered in 2011.
    The remix was previously only released in the Early Years box set and its individually available set 1967: Cambridge St/ation.

    To confuse you a bit more, some of the European Doug Sax CD releases in 1992/94 were actually straight reissues of the 1980s digital masters.
    That includes Saucerful, which suffers from severe noise reduction. The error was never fixed.
    Maybe you have such copy? If yes, look for the Shine On box set from 1992, which has the legit Doug Sax remaster of the album. Or just take the 2011 remaster CD. Both sound miles better.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2024
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  9. Groovinthedark

    Groovinthedark Forum Resident

    What about the 2010 mix do you like over the original mix? After listening my first impressions are the 2010 appears to be mono.
     
  10. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Island Owner

    Location:
    Europe
    Huh? The original mix is mostly mono. The 2010 remix has many of the instruments/elements spread on both channels. Check via headphones.
     
  11. Groovinthedark

    Groovinthedark Forum Resident

    The original is mostly mono until it pans all over the place.
     
  12. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Island Owner

    Location:
    Europe
    I know. But you were saying the 2010 mix is mono...
     
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  13. Groovinthedark

    Groovinthedark Forum Resident

    I think it sounded mono to me because of the absence of the panning. After a second listen your right that it's stereo. It's clear and sounds great. Especially after the la la la la la part you can hear the organ, I didn't notice it before hahaha.
     
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  14. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    Jugband was remixed by Andy Jackson. Gilmour just did the solo remixes.
     
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  15. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    The best mastering of the Jugband 2010 remix is found on the Cre/ation hi-res download. For whatever reason, a major treble boost was done to much of The Early Years set. The same treble boosted mastering was used on the Cre/ation 2CD and Early Years hi-res downloads. But somehow, these 2010 remix tracks on the Cre/ation hi-res download avoided this treble boost. That includes Matilda Mother, Jugband Blues and In the Beechwoods. Matilda Mother sounds pretty much the same as the Introduction mastering, leading me to assume the hi-res has these tracks in their original 2010 mastering before they were further EQd for The Early Years set. Sadly, Vegetable Man and Scream Thy Last Scream have no release without the major treble boost, but one can deduce the EQ needed to fix them by taking Matilda Mother from both The Early Years set and the Cre/ation hi-res and finding the EQ difference. Then applying that to Vegetable Man & Scream. If anyone wants, I can post the EQ settings for Izotope.
     
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  16. patsdelight

    patsdelight Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norcross, GA
    That'd be most helpful, thank you!
     
  17. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    I made two separate presets. The EQ between the Matilda Mother Introduction release and Cre/ation hi-res is a little different. They both have the same high end, which is much less than The Early CD/hi-res and Cre/ation 2CD which is the issue being solved, but they vary some in the mids and low end. Applying the Cre/ation hi-res preset to The Early Years 2010 tracks (either CD or the 44/24 downloads) will pretty much make them sound like the 2010 tracks on the Cre/ation hi-res. Applying the Introduction to Syd Barrett preset is the difference between Matilda Mother on Introduction and The Early Years. You can see which one you like better. I think I prefer the Cre/ation hi-res preset better but either are much better than The Early Years tracks with the big treble boost.

    Settings are listed from highest frequency to lowest. These are the settings from izotope. I don't know how well they translate to other EQ programs. Both settings use the "Digital" setting with frequency precision at 12hz.


    CRE/ATION HI-RES matched settings:

    20000hz -5.5db Q0.4

    3000hz 1.8db Q1.0

    1500hz 1.2db Q1.4

    300hz -0.5 Q1.2


    INTRODUCTION TO SYD BARRETT matched settings:

    20000hz -5.5db Q0.4

    1700hz 1.2db Q0.9

    300hz -0.5 Q1.2

    120hz -1.0db Q1.4

    20hz 2.5db Q0.4

    EDIT: All are bell curves except the 20000hz band for each which are high shelf and the 20hz band for "Introduction" which is low shelf.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2024
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  18. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    What the Cre/ation hi-res setting curve looks like:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    Introduction to Syd Barrett EQ setting curve:

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    Very helpful, thanks! In case your image hosts break, though, for posterity it's perhaps helpful to note that the top band is a high shelf and the others are bell curve parametric bands, except the lowest on the "Introduction To..." setting, which is a low shelf. I have the iZotope Ozone plugin also, so I'd imagine my results will match yours, but broadly speaking other parametric EQ plugins should be able to approximate the curve too

    Not that this 'repair' should have been necessary in the first place, of course...
     
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  21. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    You're welcome. I'm glad you find it helpful. Yeah, it's shame this fix was necessary.

    Yup, I forgot about the curve/shelf settings. Will see about having a mod edit the post to add them.
     

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