Julian Cope Album by Album by Single by EP by Pseudonym Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Summer of Malcontent, May 29, 2017.

  1. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident Thread Starter

    As a joke, I once compiled a music quiz for a fellow Cope fan in which you had to identify song lyrics - but they were all Cope songs, and it looked like:
    1) "Ba, ba ba, ba-a ba."
    2) "Ba, ba-ba ba ba, ba-ba ba ba ba-ba, ba ba ba-ba."
    and so on

    That's one song I find it really hard to listen to at less than peak volume. That apocalyptic bass with the organ swirling around it demands to be turned up to the pain threshold.

    I was going to save that for its release date (I though we might enjoy some respite after all that Brain Donor!), but by all means talk about it now if you like.
     
  2. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident Thread Starter

    In case you haven't heard the song everybody's talking about, here it is:
     
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  3. Tripecac

    Tripecac Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    I also really enjoy Cope's debut, although I don't listen to it very much. I'm having a blast giving it a listen now. :)

    The Teardrops' "manly" trumpets may have been replaced by the traditionally "feminine" reed and string instruments (or fake versions thereof) but that does not make this music any wimpier or more pretentious than the Teardrops. If anything, this album rocks a lot more more than the Teardrops did, with tougher guitars and drumming, more assertive singing, and clearer production. It also has tons of sing-along moments. There are no bad songs, and even the b-sides tacked onto the end of some CDs are catchy and memorable.

    So why don't I listen to it much? Hmm, maybe because I listened to it (and Fried) so frequently when I first got it that I felt like I'd memorized it, that I had my fill? Or perhaps it's because if I haven't listened to Cope in a while, I usually grab either Saint Julian (which has his poppiest moments), Peggy Suicide (his danciest moments), or Jehovahkill (his coolest moments). I usually only listen to WYSM and Fried when I am deliberately listening to all of his albums in order... which is a shame, because there's great stuff on here!


    By the way, I have the 14 track version (with "Wreck My Car", "High Class Butcher", and "Eat the Poor") as bonus tracks. I know there are at least 2 other versions with more tracks, but I have read that the biggest version (2CDs) has horrible sound quality, so I skipped it. I have all the tracks anyways, so don't feel like I'm missing anything... unless there is actually a 2CD version which sounds good? What versions do you guys have, and how does the sound quality compare?
     
  4. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident Thread Starter

    From memory, the best-sounding CDs were the original issue from the 1980s (no bonus tracks) and the Japanese edition from 2004 which had all the b-sides (including '24a Velocity Crescent' and the remix of 'Pussyface'), but not the single version of 'Greatness and Perfection'. The recent 2 disc version is the worst the album has ever sounded to me, completely emasculated (but the bonus disc is better). I've never done a dedicated A to B to C to D comparison, though.

    (This actually made me realize that I've bought this album five times, starting with the original vinyl.)
     
  5. oldturkey

    oldturkey Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gone away.
    I listened to this again today, and I was talking rubbish about An Elegant Chaos - it's a Cope classic. Don't know what track I was thinking of there. "People I see just remind me of mooing like a cow on the grass" and "I feel more of a man when I get with the herd" are often quoted, but the lyrics are actually very good. "My big fear is to dig it at last and have it taken away".

    Talking about An Elegant Chaos, that describes the version of Kolly Kibber's Birthday on Christ Vs Warhol.


    KKB features a two note guitar solo which makes me think of the Buzzcocks' classic Boredom:
    Buzzcocks-Boredom

    Has anyone got anything to say about Lunatic & Fire Pistol or Hey High Class Butcher? The "unusual" HHCB seems to be partly anti meat eating but with religious and military references. I can't really work it out, but maybe it's just stream of consciousness. Is the Sunshine Playroom b side version any different to the BBC session?

    Oh, the living is easy
    And the fighting is over
    When the fighting is over
    Should the living be easy?
    Breakfast now on the saviour
    With soldiers' tales of an infant
    I see the flames in the distance
    He bows his head as he tells me
    When you carve your name in
    My face, blue and gasping
    Crave a higher attention
    Oh, you shouldn't do that

    Oh, the river is hostile
    But I still try to cross there
    And if I leave my cross there
    Use my feet for a memory
    When I turn my face to
    The telltale horizon
    I hear the screams that curdle soldiers' blood
    Oh, you shouldn't do that

    In the night, in my kitchen
    I can hear my meat sighing
    Saying, "Hey, high class butcher
    Save our gifts from this culture
    We were asked here for dinner
    But which side of the table?
    The side of beef, not the kitchen
    Oh, you shouldn't do that"

    Oh, the living is easy
    Is the easy worth living?
    Oh, the living is easy
    Is the easy worth living?
    Yes, it's also for giving
    So forgive and forget it
    It's no problem, you can't have it


    Also Head Hang Low is another top drawer track on this LP - A bit of a preview of Fried in tone.
     
  6. Aghast of Ithaca

    Aghast of Ithaca Forum Resident

    Location:
    Angleterre
    That 1983 Peel session was pretty disturbing stuff. I seem to remember that's when people started to get more than a little worried about his mental state. And that was, what, 18 months before the Fried sleeve?
     
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  7. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    There was also a video compilation tape of Teardrops and Cope stuff released.
     
  8. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    You Better Scream was a Wah! Heat single wasn't it?
     
  9. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident Thread Starter

    It sounds like the sinister, mentally disturbed cousin of 'The Great Dominions'. The BBC version sounds pretty much the same as the single version to me, though I've never done a close comparison. I assume they use the same backing track, at the very least.
     
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  10. oldturkey

    oldturkey Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gone away.
    I could never spot the differences. I love the track though. Maybe they used the BBC session as the B Side? It has been known to happen.
     
  11. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Indeed, it happened on the very next single (though with credit this time).
     
  12. Tripecac

    Tripecac Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Copeulation was re-released on DVD a few years ago. I've seen it going for cheap on eBay. Great stuff!
     
  13. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident Thread Starter

    [​IMG]
    FRIED (1984)

    Side One: Reynard the Fox / Bill Drummond Said / Laughing Boy / Me Singing / Sunspots
    Side Two: The Bloody Assizes / Search Party / O King of Chaos / Holy Love / Torpedo

    THE FRIED SINGLE

    [​IMG]
    Sunspots (remix) / I Went on a Chourney 7” (1984)
    Sunspots (remix) / I Went on a Chourney / Mik Mak Mok / Land of Fear double 7” (1984)

    The remix / edit of ‘Sunspots’ has only ever been released on CD on the Children of Nuggets box set. The version on Floored Genius is an edit of the album mix (and not even the same edit as the original single).

    NON-ALBUM SINGLE

    Competition / Belief in Him 7” (1985)

    Credited to Rabbi Joseph Gordan. A-side included on Floored Genius 3.
     
  14. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Fried has the reputation of being one of the ultimate acid-casualty albums, but if you disregard the album cover and Cope's onstage antics of the time, it really isn't. It's actually another very tight pop / psych album in the vein of the previous one, with similarly exemplary songwriting.

    The album begins with the wild psych ride that is 'Reynard the Fox' (even wilder in the remix included on Floored Genius, with added bonkers backwards guitar), then moves through delightfully throwaway pop ('Bill Drummond Said'), a yearning, wistful ballad ('Laughing Boy', one of Cope's most gorgeous melodies), a stomping pop epic ('Sunspots'), thrashing rock ('The Bloody Assizes'), becalmed atmospherics ('Search Party', a song I always imagine taking place in dense fog at daybreak), stark, pounding piano minimalism ('O King of Chaos'), a cathartic pop climax ('Holy Love'), before closing on a calm, John Cale-like hymn ('Torpedo').

    It's an album sequence of remarkable light and shade, but none of the tracks are misfires, and certainly none of them are evidence of a talent gone awry on bad drugs. There's a lot of self-reflection in the lyrics, but not to the point of solipsism, and the same could also be said for World Shut Your Mouth (though it was a little more veiled there - he doesn't name names in 'Bandy's First Jump' as he does in 'Bill Drummond Said').

    Anyway, it's another masterpiece. There was a great review of it when it came out (probably NME or Melody Maker) that said something to the effect of: "in ten years' time, if you don't own this album, you won't be worth knowing."

    Great b-sides on the accompanying EP. 'Land of Fear' would be revisited on 20 Mothers, and 'Mik Mak Mok' is completely silly but insanely catchy.
     
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  15. Tripecac

    Tripecac Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    I love love love "Reynard the Fox". The energy on that song is awesome. When I first heard it, I was awestruck and kept expecting something else on the album to reach that aggressive, expic height... But it never did, which was a bit of a disappointment for me. (I had to wait until "Safesurfer" for the next epic rocking Cope song.)

    However, "Sunspots" is another great moment, super-catchy without being cheesy.

    The rest of the songs are mostly gentle and/or moody, and tend to fade into background music for me. Nothing is bad, but nothing really grabs be like Reynard and Sunspots. Still, those songs alone are enough to warrant a purchase of this album (or Floored Genius, on which both reside).
     
  16. oldturkey

    oldturkey Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gone away.
    A beautiful, hazy, dreamy album. I picked up a mint original about 7 years ago really cheaply - there seemed to be a lot of mint copies suddenly appearing on the market at that time, as if they'd found an unused stock. I'll have a listen during the week and get back to you on it.

    May I be the first to post the promo for Laughing Boy?
    A beautiful track and is the sleeve of Fried come to life.
    This video captures the feeling of enjoying 1980s summers with no responsibilities. Unique and wonderful - I don't know why it was filmed - maybe anticipated as a single?
    At 5:15 Julian's future self appears in a vision.



    Sunspots - probably his most popular solo song after WSYM - reached #76 on the UK charts and Fried #87!

    It just shows how unfashionable or unpopular he was at the time. There's plenty of highly infectious tunes from these sessions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  17. dlemaudit

    dlemaudit Forum Resident

    Location:
    France, Paris area
    great album , always preferred Cope Solo than the Teardrop Explodes
     
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  18. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Actually, all of Cope's commercially released singles since then did better chart-wise, even stuff like 'Fear Loves This Place' and 'Planetary Sit-In'. It's kind of interesting that every Cope solo single charted in the UK, but only 'World Shut Your Mouth' and 'Trampolene' charted anywhere else.* And even the 'smash hit' of 'World Shut Your Mouth' barely scraped the UK top 20. 'Try Try Try' nearly did as well.

    * There are also a few stray appearances on Billboard's Mainstream Rock chart, including a no. 1 (!) for 'Charlotte Anne', but that's not a sales chart, so it's not really comparable.
     
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  19. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Love the Moog on Try Try Try.
     
  20. Tripecac

    Tripecac Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    I never heard Cope on commercial US radio, just college radio. Ditto for NZ radio, but I didn't get over here until 2009, which is a bit past Cope's airplay prime, so no surprises there.

    Was Cope actually on "normal" radio a lot in the UK during the '80s? Or was he more of a college radio thing?

    I've always been curious about Cope's popularity there in the UK; in the US (and NZ) very few people I've met ever seem to have heard of him. Ditto the Fall, the Smiths, Wire, New Order, Fela Kuti...

    Jeesh, the average Joe seems to know very little about any of the music I like. I think our real taste overlap is Bob Marley, the Police, the Beatles, and the Stones. And of those bands the average Joe only knows the played-to-death hits.

    God, the average Joe SUCKS!!!!
     
  21. Leepal

    Leepal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Swindon, UK
    He was on normal radio a bit in the UK in the 80s as he had a couple of hits here. Probably more of an "underground" figure overall though.
     
  22. adm62

    adm62 Senior Member

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Yes, otherwise the kind of act who would appear on Peel 10-12 and whoever was doing the 8-10 slot.
     
  23. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Yikes! If an album as iconic as Fried gets so little comment, what's this thread going to look like by the time we get to Interpreter? Let alone Vermichte Die Gotter!

    Well, pressing on, we come to Julian's commercial apex:


    SAINT JULIAN (1987)

    [​IMG]

    Side One: Trampolene / Shot Down / Eve’s Volcano (Covered in Sin) / Spacehopper / Planet Ride
    Side Two: World Shut Your Mouth / Saint Julian / Pulsar / Screaming Secrets / A Crack in the Clouds

    Australian and New Zealand version came with additional interview LP.
    2013 CD adds additional disc of previously released single tracks.

    THE SAINT JULIAN SINGLES

    [​IMG]
    World Shut Your Mouth (edit) / Umpteenth Unnatural Blues 7” (1986)
    World Shut Your Mouth (edit) / World Shut Your Mouth (Trouble Funk Remix – short version) / Umpteenth Unnatural Blues / Levitation double 7” box set (1986)
    World Shut Your Mouth (LP version) / I’ve Got Levitation / Umpteenth Unnatural Blues / Non Alignment Pact / Transporting 12” (1986)
    World Shut Your Mouth (Trouble Funk Remix – long version) / I’ve Got Levitation / World You’re Your Mouth (Trouble Funk Remix – short version) 12” (1986)
    Interview / World Shut Your Mouth (edit) / I’ve Got Levitation / Umpteenth Unnatural Blues / Non Alignment Pact cassette (1986)

    The single edit of ‘World Shut Your Mouth’ runs 3.05, fading out just as the vocals end. US singles seemed to use the album version. The UK edit has appeared on a few compilation CDs, probably the most common being The Island Story from 1987.
    There's also a Trouble Funk remix of this short version that only appears on the original releases.

    [​IMG]
    Trampolene / Disaster 7” (1987)
    Trampolene / Disaster / Mock Turtle / Warwick the Kingmaker 7” and 12”(1987)
    Trampolene (Warne Out!) / Trampolene / Disaster 12” (1987)

    [​IMG]
    Eve’s Volcano ‘Covered in Sin’ (single remix) / Almost Beautiful Child (I & II) 7” (1987)
    Eve’s Volcano ‘Covered in Sin’ (single remix) / Almost Beautiful Child (I & II) / Pulsar N.X. (live) / Shot Down (live) 12” (1987)
    Eve’s Volcano – Vulcano Lungo! / Spacehopper – Annexe / Almost Beautiful Child (I & II) 12” (1987)
    Eve’s Volcano ‘Covered in Sin’ (single remix) / Almost Beautiful Child (I & II) / Pulsar N.X. (live) / Shot Down (live) 12” / Spacehopper – Annexe CD (1987)

    The single remix of Eve’s Volcano is edited slightly from the album as well, running 3.50. Like the other short versions of the Saint Julian singles, it hasn't appeared on any subsequent Cope compilations.


    THE FOLLOWERS OF SAINT JULIAN (1997)

    [​IMG]
    Compilation of single tracks from Saint Julian-era singles above. The only tracks missing are:

    World Shut Your Mouth (7” edit)
    World Shut Your Mouth (Trouble Funk Mix –short version)
    Eve’s Volcano ‘Covered in Sin’ (single remix)
    Spacehopper – Annexe

    The second disc of the 2CD Saint Julian reissue adds ‘Spacehopper –Annexe’ but omits ‘Trainsporting (with Interview)’
     
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  24. sparkmeister

    sparkmeister Forum Resident

    Location:
    Abergavenny UK
    I will comment on WSYM and Fried when I've finished revisiting them. I don't know about anyone else but I'm more interested in reading comments about albums like Interpreter rather than the earlier albums.
     
  25. Tripecac

    Tripecac Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    It's definitely interesting that so few audiophiles know or care about Cope. But not entirely unexpected. He's always seemed "niche" in my head in terms of the general public, so why not audiophiles as well?

    I can only remember 3 people I've ever met (in real life) whom I could consider Cope fans. Three.

    And this is a perfect time to talk about them.

    ----------------------------------------

    The first person I met who knew Cope was Anne, in high school. She was 2 years ahead of me, and was the 1st chair french horn player (I was 2nd). My freshman year, she gave me a couple mixed tapes with UK bands I'd never heard of before: The Cure, New Order, The Smiths, The The, Shriekback, Dead Can Dance, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Cocteau Twins, Jesus and Mary Chain, Jazz Butcher, James, Echo and the Bunnymen, Aztec Camera, Kate Bush, General Public, Chameleons, China Crisis, and Julian Cope. Yeah, I know: WOW! All of those bands were completely new to me; I'd never heard any "alternative" music before. This was quite a musical awakening, and I quickly fell in love with most of those bands, and started collecting them.

    Julian Cope was one of my first big obsessions from those tapes. I loved the sound of the 2 Cope songs Anne chose for me: "Planet Ride" and "Saint Julian". Both are on Saint Julian, which is the album we're discussing now. It's probably Cope's poppiest album, featuring his most accessible songs, with not much "weirdness" aside from perhaps the last song ("Crack in the Clouds"). Some people think it (and its follow up My Nation Underground) are too "commercial" or "watered down", but I really like the poppy aspect of Cope. Maybe that's because the poppiness is what attracted me to Cope in the first place. "Planet Ride" is one of the few songs that has a strong funk aspect; I love its somewhat rambling robo-funky feel.

    Later, when I got a copy of the entire album, the standout sugary pop songs were"World Shut Your Mouth", "Eve's Volcano", and "Trampoline". I also liked "A Crack in the Clouds", which ended the album on a more contemplative note. The other songs were all fine, too, although I felt "Pulsar" was a bit harsh. Overall, I really like the album, not as a work of art, but more as a semi-nostalgic guilty pleasure. I also really like the WYSM B-sides, which I first heard when I got to college and worked as a DJ; it's there that I copied all the Cope EPs, plus the Teardrops albums, and then most of the albums from the other bands on those mixed tapes. Years later, I of course bought tapes and CDs of almost everything I had copied, and have since bought favorite albums multiple times. So those 2 mixed tapes have cost me a lot of money! But they gave me unmeasurable joy, too. That was the single most influential batch of songs I ever encountered!

    ----------------------------------------

    The second person was Billy, who has contributed many songs to the Julian Cope tribute project (Interpreters). I thought Billy did an awesome job capturing the vibe and sound of Cope, and was so impressed that when I found out he lived a couple hours away, I met up with him before one of my big trips across the country. He's a great guy, and I ended up visiting him later. He was using his computer to make music, and had a program called Cakewalk. That was the first time ever saw Cakewalk, and I liked it enough to buy it later (it was my first DAW), and am still using it (or rather, its descendant, Sonar) today. That's how I make music nowadays, so Billy had a huge influence on my creative life. Also, Billy's great guitar work, and getting to see him play the guitar at his house, inspired me to buy my own an electric guitar, which in turn got me more interested in guitar-based music.

    ----------------------------------------

    The third person was Andrew. He lived wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy up in the boonies in Canada, but he had a killer Cope collection and web site. I had my own web site, and we often emailed each other. His great Cope web site really inspired me to expand and polish my own, causing me to pick up skills that later benefited me job-wise. He also benefited me in another, very significant way: On one of my travels to Alaska I decided to meet up with Andrew, and got to stay with him a few days. That was hugely enlightening for me. Andrew was originally from the UK, but had moved to Canada after he had finished school. He had an interesting perspective on both cultures, and his emigration from the UK planted a seed in my head, which blossomed a few years later when I decided to emigrate from the US to New Zealand.

    ----------------------------------------

    So, all three of these Cope fans had big influences on me. And it all started with those mixed tapes I received in high school. "Planet Ride" and "Saint Julian". Those led to my love of UK music, to my creation of fan-based mailing lists and web sites, to my use of Cakewalk to make music (instead of a standalone sequencer), and to my emigration to New Zealand.

    And aside from those 3 Cope fans, I can't remember anyone else who listened to Cope, and of those people I've "forced" to listen to Cope, I can't remember anyone who actually liked it. He seems to be a niche taste, but I'm firmly in that niche! (Well, at least as far as his early '90s goes...)
     

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