Julian Cope Album by Album by Single by EP by Pseudonym Thread

I just re-listened to Saint Julian, and really enjoyed it. The overall energy level and "tight" song writing reminds me of Kilimanjaro. The only 2 places it seems to relax and meander (in a good way) are "Planet Ride" and "A Crack in the Clouds".

Of all the albums we've discussed so far, my favorite is Saint Julian. I really like the energy and the sing-along poppiness. I also like the driving semi-punky sound on a lot of the songs.

As interesting as Cope can be when he experiments, my favorite moments of his are when he's at his most focused and "commercial" sounding. In other words, I like him best when he's in "pop star" mode.

Unfortunately, he seems to have completely turned his back on his pop star persona. Maybe he hates having his "unique" ideas edited into a pop format. Maybe he hates having to compromise with other musicians and producers (and having to pay them). Maybe he hates the idea of paparazzi prying into his private life (now that has has a family). Or maybe he's just afraid of trying really hard to complete in the popular area... and failing. Regardless of his hates and fears, it seems very unlikely that we will ever see a "poppy" Cope again.

Saint Julian was Cope at his pop star peak... and from this point onward it's a gradual retreat from the spotlight, mostly instigated by Cope himself. There were still some great moments after this (including 2 albums I like even more than Saint Julian) but never again was he able (or willing) to create a set of songs so consistently tuneful as these.

 

A couple of great posts, but I'm going to have to come from the opposite angle on JC. Although I do appreciate his tunefulness and ability to come up with killer hooks I find albums like Saint Julian too polished and sort of boring. I know he had a great rock band with him for this, the leather trousers and jacket, the 12" hit remixes and songs that really suited touring, but for me it's really empty.
The only song I like on this album is A Crack In The Clouds which I really love - I'm SO BORED with listening to Trampoline and Space Hopper even though I have hardly ever played them. For me the character and eccentricities of Julian is what makes him appealing - his willingness to try something out.
A lot of the songs on this album just sound like slight variations on the same theme. Even Eve's Volcano I find totally unappealing. This is the only Teardrops or Cope LP I don't have on vinyl up to recent years, because even though I've thought about buying the one with the free interview record online I just can't work up enough enthusiasm to press the button.

I was going to get back to you about Fried but I'm still listening to the BBC sessions! Some of those are really great.
Is it Donald Ross Skinner who does most of the guitar on these? There's so much great guitar on these sessions if you listen for it.

For me, Fried is 9 or 10 out of 10 and St Julian is 2 out of 10 and those 3 points are 2 for the brilliant A Crack In The Clouds and 1 for having a cool sleeve.

 

I'm kind of Mr. Inbetween (don't mess with me!) with this album. Like Tripecac, it was my first Cope album (bought on cassette on a trip to London and played on my Walkman solidly for a couple of weeks), and I retain a lot of affection for it, but yeah, it's kind of boring, especially in light of the range expressed on the previous two albums. 'A Crack in the Clouds' is the only track where Cope really stretches out and does something distinctive - and it's superb. A couple of the stomping pop songs are perennially appealing to me ('Spacehopper' and 'Screaming Secrets'), though 'World Shut Your Mouth' long ago wore itself out. 'Planet Ride' is okay, but Cope would do much better work in the same vein later on: the groove is a bit stiff here.

'Trampolene' has a bunch of decent riffs and melodies, but they're just jumbled together incoherently with a really mediocre lyric (Cope's lyric writing takes a dive on this album in general) and ends up as mere radio fodder - a catchy sound, but on closer inspection a bit of a rubbish song. 'Eve's Volcano' isn't entirely inert, but it's pretty dull. 'Shot Down' sounds like he's trying to be Jim Morrison, and I hate Jim Morrison. 'Pulsar' is a one-dimensional non-song, strictly filler.

And I had to remind myself that the title track exists. This track sounds like Cope put more work into it than a lot of the album. It's crafted, but the core elements (i.e. the tune) just aren't first rate.

On the plus side: some great b-sides. The Ubu and Elevator covers are sparkling, 'Umpteenth Unnatural Blues' is a goofy charmer like 'Mik Mak Mok', and the post-Fried demo session captured on the Trampolene EP sounds like the makings of a much more interesting album.

 

Yeah, it could be that Cope just hates the sort of music he made on Saint Julian. If you look at his tastes (Krautrock, Japrock, heavy metal, Scott Walker, Love), there really isn't much overlap with simple, glossy pop. I just can't help liking, it, though.

It's like Paul McCartney's "cutesy" songs ("When I'm 64", "Ob-la-di Ob-la-da", "Bip Bop"). A lot of people really hate those songs, much preferring John's darker style. But I really like the shiny cheesy Paul songs, as empty and stupid as they area. I like the catchiness. And I like the same elements in Cope's music... the ear-worms. The stuff that gets little kids up and dancing while the adults roll their eyes. Definitely "guilty pleasure" territory, right?

At the same time, though, I really appreciate "A Crack in the Clouds" (I think we all do so far) and that one's not very kid-friendly. It reminds me a bit of "Strange House in the Snow", another album closer.

It's interesting that Cope often (but not always) put his long, contemplative songs at (or very near) the end of his albums:

1) When I Dream
2) The Great Dominions
3) Strange House in the Snow
4) A Crack in the Clouds
5) Las Vegas Basement
6) The Tower
7) S.T.A.R.C.A.R.
etc.

A lot of those "epic" songs ended up my favourites on those albums.

I think Cope liked those songs too, and used some his side projects (Rite, QE) as a way of exploring the taking of long epics to the extreme. And now we're at a point where most of his recent efforts seem to fall into the category of "extremely long songs with not much happening". It was nice when Cope injected some pop aspiration into his epics, but he doesn't seem to bother with that anymore. It's pretty much "hooks, schmooks" nowadays.

 

Bear in mind that Strange House in the Snow is not a genuine album closer. In terms of Cope-specific genres, it's 'wacky uncommercial b-side' like 'Hey High Class Butcher' or 'Dragonfly'.

 

Ear worms are a Julian Cope speciality, and they're in abundance of the four previous albums, but on this one that's all there is for me, and they're not as inventive ear worms as previously. Charlotte Anne from the next LP is one that hooked me in and I still quite like it - it's just the conventional formulaic rock nature of these songs that I find a little bit boring. I really do like Cope's pop songs in general (although as I said previously - not Greatness & Perfection).
Anyway - he does have a great pop spirit and ability.

 

Time for this old joke?

What's the difference between a cow and The Teardrop Explodes?

A cow has horns at the front and an a**h*le at the back ....

* I love him really

 

I don't think I've heard that joke
...for the last 35 years at least anyway.

I've been listening to Transporting, Mock Turtle and Warwick The Kingmaker overnight - all are a bit more up my street than the main LP, but those last two sound like they could have been on Fried or WSYM, Also listened to a great live gig from 30th June 1988 La Cigale France (I don't know where I got it) and the songs really suit live performance. These gigs must have been a great night out.

This nice interview on Japanese TV has a very thin Julian philosophising and giving a thumbs up to Marc Almond and Matt Johnson of TheThe:


Talking of whom, James Eller who plays bass on this and the next LP went on to play on TheThe albums Mind Bomb and Dusk and on their world tour with Johnny Marr. He is also on their recent single We Can't Stop What's Coming along with drummer Chris Whitten.

 

Yeah, I'm doing catch-up re-listening as well, and I wouldn't have much worthwhile to say about the first few albums anyhow that hasn't already been said better. But I'm following the thread with enthusiasm and can't wait until we get to Droolian, a work of great splendor and majesty.

Also picked up a copy of Head On / Repossessed as a supplement to the thread.

 

Head On is great! A very fun read. Repossesses is more introspective, and although not as "fun" as Head On, it makes it easier to relate to Cope.

I hope some day he writes a third auto-bio, because the first 2 were so good I ended up buying them twice (after my first copy was lost during a move).

 

Oh - I've been waiting for soooooo long for the 3rd part of the autobiography! I hope it happens - it will be so interesting - the 1990s was my favourite period for the Drude. That's the time he sort of found himself imo.
I'll be here for the long haul if I can - I've got all of his albums and quite a few of the side projects (but not that Kabbalist cd that OP was talking about). I'm not really looking forward to talking about My Nation Underground - there's a couple on there I like though, but after that it's a full on freak out ride in the Mothership!

 

That Kabalist album - which I missed completely at the time, can still be ordered direct from Chris Olley as part of the tenth edition of his Muzik Klub series. It comes in a lovingly personalized handmade package along with another collection of Olley solo work. I ordered it when I compiled all the information for this thread and, full disclosure, I think the Kabalist album is pretty poor, but I'm just listening to Olley's own album from the package, and it's excellent. So: mindless completism wins again!

Available here:
six by seven / Chris Olley

 

Ordered - many thanks. One man's St Julian is another man's Brain Donor, so let's see!

 

Not sure what album you're comparing to gold and which to garbage but either way I'd say that's an apt contrast.

 

Andrew aka Common Era moved back to the UK sometime in the 00s. I would message him via HH and he shared some good stuff with me. He later joined JC's Black Sheep project, and has contributed his design/photos to some recent music and book releases.

I met him briefly at my first and only JC show a couple years ago in Manchester. Lovely guy. Met a couple other HHers at a Gnod show on the same trip. Back home I only know of one other Cope fan, a guy named John who introduced me to him in 97 when he lent me a tape of Jehovahkill and led me down a 20 year musical path.

 

BTW, some copies of Saint Julian in the UK also contained the interview LP. I remember getting mine at HMV in Nottingham soon after it was released.

 

I donated my brain quite some time ago.

 

I even reply to my own posts.

 

I wish I could like my own likes.

 

Sorry, when I first read that last sentence I just had an image of a dog... um... "grooming" himself...

Anyway, moving on from that image...

I look forward to entering the '90s in this discussion, because I think that is when Cope's music evolved into something truly inspiring and educational, for me at least. If Saint Julian is the peak of his sugary pop, then the early '90s has Cope transitioning from "pop" (soda) to more adult beverages, such as beer and wine; his music and influences get grungier, rawer, more "grown up" (and less faddish) in taste. I guess this makes My Nation Underground the equivalent of a "wine cooler", but we'll talk about that soon.

 

In Japan you can get Shochu with a real snake in the bottle to add a bit of Man's Power. That's probably Brain Donor's Love, Peace & F*%k.

 

I absolutely love Peggy Suicide and Jehovakill. Also like the Skellington Chronicles. Prior to the first Skellington I think he's quite patchy. Some great songs amongst a lot of stuff that doesn't do it for me. After 20 Mothers I really lost interest in his material.

Not a fan of his krautrock stuff but he's an interesting cat to say the least!

 

I guess it's time for The Scottish Album.

MY NATION UNDERGROUND (1988)



Side One: 5 O’Clock World / Vegetation / Charlotte Anne / My Nation Underground
Side Two: China Doll / Someone Like Me / Easter Everywhere / I’m Not Losing Sleep / The Great White Hoax


THE MY NATION UNDERGROUND SINGLES


Charlotte Anne (single edit) / Christmas Mourning 7” (1988)
Charlotte Anne (LP version) / Books / A Question of Temperature / Christmas Mourning 12” & CD (1988)


5 O’Clock World (LP version) / S.P.Q.R. 7” (1988)
5 O’Clock World (LP version) / S.P.Q.R. / Reynard in Tokio (live) 12” & CD (1988)
5 O’Clock World (LP version) / S.P.Q.R. / World Shut Your Mouth (Trouble Funk Remix) 10” (1988)
5 O’Clock World (US single edit) / S.P.Q.R. US 7” (1988)


China Doll (single edit) / Crazy Farm Animal 7” (1989)
China Doll (LP version) / Crazy Farm Animal / Rail On / Desi 10” & 12” (1989)
China Doll (single edit) / Crazy Farm Animal / Rail On / Desi CD (1989)

 

This album gets a very bad press, not least from Cope himself, but to me it's not really that big a step down from Saint Julian. 'Charlotte Anne' and 'China Doll' are much more interesting and successful stabs at what 'Eve's Volcano' was attempting.

I think the problem with the album is that Cope didn't quite have a full album of strong material, and he was feeling an uncomfortable amount of label pressure. The cover of '5 O'Clock World' was not his idea (though he made a decent stab of it). I guess Island asked him to cover a 'sixties classic' (which was commercially fashionable at the time), so he delivered brilliant versions of obscurities by The Balloon Farm and The Chocolate Watch Band, but they put their foot down and insisted on something people had heard of. That would understandably sour a relationship.

The good stuff on the album is very good, and much more peculiarly Copean than much of the previous album. 'My Nation Underground' is weird, funky and odd, and wouldn't have been out of place on Peggy Suicide. 'The Great White Hoax' is better still: a grand pop epic. The subdued 'Charlotte Anne' and 'I'm Not Losing Sleep' are pretty but eccentric, and the former was quite a striking - if crazy - choice for a lead single. 'China Doll' is more blandly pretty, but it is very pretty. One of Cope's straightest singles. The cover of 'Someone Like Me' is a giddy pop confection. The core of this album is quite odd and introspective, but there's a bunch of other, weaker stuff bunged on that really doesn't fit with it. I've never attempted to revamp the album to make it less lumpy, but there are some superb b-sides that could surely even things out.

On the singles, you get excellent covers of 'A Question of Temperature' and Cope's own 'Books', the belated studio recording of the awesome 'Crazy Farm Animal', and the moody 'Christmas Mourning'. No remixes this time around (which may be some relief after the underachieving Saint Julian ones), but each a-side had an edit in some format or territory (and an arbitrarily 'extended' version of 'Charlotte Anne' subsequently appeared on Floored Genius).

 

This has some great songs, and overall feels more aggressive than his earlier stuff.

"5 O'Clock World" is a catchy, funky mix of shiny Motown and impatient post-punk. I love the organ solo near the end, and wish the song went on like that for another couple minutes. Too bad it fades out soon after that solo gets started.

"Vegetation" continues the funk theme, adding harmonica, cowbell, and mallet sounds for a fresh feel. On the downside, it suffers from shallow writing and cheesy brass stabs. It's a mindless toe-tapper, not great art, but not unwelcome. I appreciate it, but wish it had been sequenced later in the album, or perhaps as a b-side.

"Charlotte Anne" sounds almost like something off of Saint Julian, but has crisper, more percussion-oriented production and guitar lines sounding like something off of Peggy Suicide. For me, this is the most representative "bridge" song between Saint Julian and Peggy Suicide. I really like it, and regard it as a classic.

"My Nation Underground" introduces chanting, pounding piano riffs, and loopy rhythms. It reminds me of a mix of "East Easy Rider" and "Double Vegetation". It's not as tuneful as "Charlotte Anne" or "5 O'Clock World" but has some interesting stuff going on. I just wish the drums didn't sound so looped; they remind me of those Pete Best / Beatles mash-ups.

"China Doll" is a waltz, which is very rare for Cope. It's one of his prettiest, poppiest songs. Definitely a highlight of this album, but it often gets forgotten because it is so different from what he normally records.

"Someone Like Me" and "Easter Everywhere" are very peppy and have a strong Teardrop Explodes feel, with their rapidly cycling bass lines and brass fanfares. They're too short and shallow to make much of a lasting impression, but are fun when they come on.

"I'm Not Losing Sleep" slows things back down, and has loopy-sounding drums. To me, it sounds like something off of the third (abandoned) Teardrop Explodes album. It's not bad, but a bit repetitive and unengaged emotionally.

"The Great White Hoax" took me a few years to appreciate. It reminds me of "Pulsar", which is not a good thing in my book: it's a bit too shouty and "overcompressed" sounding for my tastes. But at least it has more going on than "Pulsar" My favorite part is the mostly instrumental bit in the second half; Cope's vocals there are more balanced and melodic. The fade back in at the end seems unnecessary, except it reminds me of what's coming up soon: the massive "Safesurfer".

Overall, I like the album, but don't listen to it much, because it doesn't really excel at anything; if I want pop, I'll listen to Saint Julian, if I want to hear percussive garage I'll listen to Peggy Suicide, and if I want Teardrop-sounding stuff I'll listen to the Teardrops. This album serves as a sampler of some of Cope's different styles, but it doesn't have a unique voice of its own. And that's why it sits on the shelf (or hard drive), unvisited except for days like today when someone reminds me about it.


The b-sides are very nice (I even named my Cope discussion forum "Rail On"). Unfortunately, I only have 2 of the b-sides on CD ("Christmas Mourning" and "Crazy Farm Animal", on Floored Genius 2), and I'm not even sure those are the "right" versions. I have the rest of the b-sides on mp3, but would love to get them on CD in better quality.
In fact, I'd love a deluxe reissue of My Nation Underground. WSYM, Fried, Saint Julian, Peggy Suicide, and Jehovahkill all received deluxe versions; why not My Nation Underground? (And, for that matter, why not Autogeddon as well, since that's the third CD in the "trilogy"?) Maybe some day a Cope-loving record label will get the rights to his pre-2000 songs and release a proper set of well-mastered deluxe editions. That'd be awesome!