Just ordered a Grado MC+ mono cart, but have questions

Hello all -

I just ordered a Grado MC+ mono cart, but have some questions about the stylus it will come with.

Grado notoriously provides few details about their styli. My previous understanding was that the MC+ had a conical tip and the ME+ had an elliptical tip; now that appears to no longer be the case, as both are listed on Grado's website as having elliptical tips.

I have also read some comments on various hifi forums that both models come with 1.0 mil tips, but of course there is no details provided about this on Grado's site.

Can anyone confirm that the MC+ stylus is in fact different from, say, the Black2 stylus?

I suppose I could contact Grado directly about it, but I have gotten contradictory, uninformed information in the past from whomever responds to their general mail inbox (probably some Grado family member, LOL).

 

I just sent Grado an email, and will post their response.

 

gradoservice <[email protected]>
9:32 AM (1 hour ago)


to me

Hi Glenn

the MC+ and the ME+ both use a .2x.7 mil elliptical diamond

the ME+ use a better performing generator

the Black v2 uses the same diamond, however the coil components are much different that the MC and Me chassis

any questions,let us know , happy to help

 

I just sent them another inquiry, asking if the DJ100 or DJ200 styli are conical or elliptical. Again, there are no details on their website about this.

 

Do they use bonded styli on these models?

 

Almost certainly. Even the upper tier current-production 8MZ stylus is bonded.

Re-reading the email from Grado...

...I'm 99% convinced that the MC+ stylus is identical to the Black2 stylus. Replacement styli for both cost $50, and their comment about the coils has nothing to do with the stylus.

Fortunately the turntable that this will be used on (a 1971 Braun PS-500) already has a Black2 mounted on one of the two headshells I have, so no adjustments will be needed when swapping headshells (which is why I chose the MC+).

Grados perform superbly on this turntable's arm, and the Black2 is remarkably good, especially considering its low price. I anticipate similarly good performance from pairing it with an MC+.

 

More info direct from Grado, after I inquired about their DJ styli:

Well, that's a curious statement.

 

IIRC, the Lyra mono cartridges use line contact styli.

 

I hadn’t really looked at their website in a couple of years, and it seems they have since made some “improvements” that actually make it harder to find information...

FWIW, I play modern mono records with a MicroLine stylus, and they sound great. I would imagine Grado may be referring to modern mono records (not old wide-groove mono) when making that statement about elliptical styli.

If you’re looking to put a conical stylus on your MC+, it seems you have found your answer, though.

 

Some people just can't accept how awesome a spherical stylus can be IMO.

 

Bump that to 100%. That is exactly what they are telling you. They’re specifying “diamond” for some reason instead of assuming you know the stylus is just the diamond. In their defense, they probably deal with a lot of people who don’t.

 

I think at a minimum it is weird they don’t have a conical on the MC and an elliptical on the ME, since that would seem to be what the C and E indicate.

At least these are user-changeable styli that fit universally among their line.

 

Overall, I agree with that.

 

Wow...I always thought that both models had 1.0 mil tips.

 

FWIW, I've never had a problem using non-conical tips on vintage mono records.

 

Well sure - the idea is you can use any stylus profile you prefer in any scenario you choose. I'm addressing the people who claim elipticals/etc are always better then a conical as Grado did. I'd remind them a Denon 103 or an SPU are always awesome.

 

Two words I reflexively refute as soon as I hear or read them are “always” and “never”.

 

I can handle a few absolutely in life, but definitely not from phono cartridges. They come in a million flavors for a reason!

 

Just call them and ask. 718.435.5340

 

I was looking into a minimal cost mono cart today and came upon this thread (as well as plenty others) dealing with the mono Grados.
People do like them and they are not just strapped stereo but rather they are only wired with 2 of 4 coils in the generator body to only read the lateral groove info (I think that's how it goes anyway).
Which is good and probably why they work well, but it is weird that the MC+ no longer has a conical stylus, although I imagine you could plug that DJ conical into it.
The bummer of all that is that replacing a Grado stylus is not fun at all.
I've replaced a few and maybe only had one extraction that didn't damage/bend the cantilever - putting them in is easy but taking one out is best left for when the stylus is dead.
So digging up a cheap conical to use with one of these may be doable but switching between the 2 would be not fun at all.
So I guess the next up the cost chain would be the ATmono3 which (I think) has a horizontal layout for the coils(s) and is to be considered a true mono design as opposed to being strapped (stereo coils in parallel as opposed to in series?).
Anyway, I started thinking about the conical aspect because I read recently that RCA Dynagroove records can only sound decent with a conical.
I know I have only a handful (if that) of Dynagrooves and the only one I think would benefit is a Jefferson Airplane (Takes Off) mono Dynagroove from the sixties, I don't even know if that Dynagroove cut record in mono is even affected by what RCA did, apparently the DG cut did something with the cutter head to compensate for older stylus profiles or some such and causes distortion with an elliptical.
So I suppose in general that it makes sense to have a conical around for the occasional RCA DG or for older '50s and older mono, but when your collection is mostly modern stereo cutter made records then not so much.
What makes sense for me (I think) would probably be to just use an older 8mz Grado that I think has a conical tip on it -it didn't come that way, I baffed the original tip in it and then put an older tip in it just to have it be functional, the tip did get bent in the process but it works fine, and since I think it's a conical I could just try it on that old DG and see how it sounds.
Otherwise I'm leaning towards either the ME+ Grado or the AT3mono for the bulk of recording modern cut mono lps.

 

From what I've read a lot of people experience that a more advanced tip can work extremely well on old and newer monos.
What has me on it is that I have wanted to record an open copy of Beatles For Sale 2014 mono for awhile now and everytime I listened with headphones I used a mono switch (after the phono preamp) and switching back and forth it was amazing how much dynamic meat on the bones just got lopped off using a mono switch.
I finally did the recording (with the mono switch) and in listening casually on speakers it sounds fine, but I can't shake that I know it could be better.
Previewing that recording this morning the next lp recorded on the chip came up and it's a og stereo Lalo Schifrin Mannix sndtrk, it just sounded so much fuller and dynamic, meaty all around that I am fairly convinced that I need at least a decent mono cart to do the mono recordings justice.
In a nutshell that is what triggered resurrecting this thread.

So what are your impressions of the Grado MC+ at this point??

 

The idea that older monos require a conical is urban legend or myth. I just had Steve Leung at VAS retip an AT 33 Mono with a Namiki microridge on boron cantilever (I bought a few of them when Warren Jarrett very graciously organized a group buy through Namiki for forum members a few years ago) and it is a better cartridge in every way than it was with the conical.

I'm listening to it right now and have played a broad range of records with it from late 50's/early
60's original pressing monos to more recent reissues like the 2014 Beatles monos.

The microline on boron is even quieter in the groove (that may be attributable to the boron
cantilever I expect), extracts more detail, is richer sounding and much more accurate and resolving
in the higher frequencies.

Better all around on both old and new monos.

 

This confirms what I've thought for awhile, I only recently thought of having a conical around because of what I read about some of those Dynagroove lps, but I have only one that is a Dynagroove mono, and I think at this point I have unloaded any stereo DGs that I have had so I'm not really concerned about the conical aspect.
So did those boron cantilevers have the MR tips already installed on them ?
Regardless that does sound like a smart move to set up the 33 that way.
I have an old AT140lc with a boron cantilever and LC tip that is pretty magical for an old MM, I got it on an old Dual 701 I picked up used years ago and was shocked how nice it sounded.
I could pop a VM540ML stylus in it and it would probably sound great on a lighter arm, but I've noticed the stylus assembly doesn't seat so snug in it anymore so I wouldn't bother.
Right now I'm focusing on setting up a ATOC9xsl mc on a 9g arm and I do kind of regret not going for the ML version, but it's kind of a live and learn deal, I found out how nice a ML (or MR) tip is by picking up one of those VM95MLs after I had gotten the OC9.
I actually have a Clearaudio Charisma that is mm but has to be retipped like a mc and cost about 2k retail, and knowing about CAs use of AT parts in some of their carts makes me think the OC9 and the Charisma probably have the same boron cantilever and lc tip -they look the same and describe the same in the catalog literature, but who knows.
I bet the ML on a boron cantilever would be great, that VM95ML is pretty quiet in the groove, in general if there was a contest for biggest bang for the buck cart it may well be the 95 that wins big, if it is set up right and treated well it really delivers for well under 200$.

 

Yes, cantilever and stylus assembly, all in one. Typical of what the major
retippers are using when they essentially cut an existing cantilever and then
graft that cantilever with new stylus onto the cartridge being repaired.

Namiki assemblies, though, would probably be considered among the best I'm
sure. I had an Accuphase AC2 done with one a few years ago and Steve Leung also
did an SAEC C1 for me at the same time that he did the AT 33 Mono in the past month.

I just checked and I don't have any Dynagroove mono here but I can't see why it
would be much different than other non-Dynagroove vintage mono.

 

For mono, I have lately been using a Pickering NP/AC body (= Stanton 500) with a NOS 500 conical DJ stylus, tracking at 4.5g.

It sounds astonishingly good on old mono LPs and 45s: bold, immediate and well-balanced. I like it so much that I immediately bought three more NOS Stanton Plainview, NY styli while I still can.

I tried it on a stereo record and it was less impressive, it sounded dull and congested. But on records requiring only horizontal compliance, it is truly amazing.

I can post a sample needle drop if anyone is interested.