KAB Ortofon Concorde back in stock (Reloop branding)

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by snorker, Nov 19, 2020.

  1. RPM

    RPM Forum Resident

    Location:
    Easter Island
    Yes, I'm aware, just comparing the original KABs as the proven ones. You can still get a used Pro S and put your own STY stylus.
     
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  2. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Comparing DC resistance should give a good indication, especially if it differs between the both of them.
    Means there are different coils inside (the magnet of the stylus has no impact on DC resistance).
     
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  3. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Bass was probably cut to make more tracks fit on a side. Source could have been anything, 3rd-4th gen copies or who knows what.
     
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  4. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
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  5. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
  6. RPM

    RPM Forum Resident

    Location:
    Easter Island
    So, is the Thakker 10 R Concorde basically a 1:1 compared to the 40 Anniversary, except for the needle?
     
  7. Leao

    Leao Well-Known Member

    I have used a black Concorde body with stylus 40 and 30 on a Pioneer PLX 1000 despite the 54 vs 52mm overhang issue and it/they sound fine.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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  8. SNDVSN

    SNDVSN Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow
    I'm spending more time with the Reloop Concorde STY20, it's not bad, I'm starting to hear that low frequency boost, it's quite subtle.
     
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  9. ultron9

    ultron9 Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    After about 2 days and 8 or 9 Lps...I'm hearing more focus and subtle low end than before...tracks very well and virtually no IGD yet. I Will have to play some older well used disks to see how the cartridge handles those.
     
  10. Curiosity

    Curiosity Just A Boy

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    As I understand it, yes.
     
  11. Curiosity

    Curiosity Just A Boy

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    That is a long lp, around 58 minutes and perhaps that's what they needed to do get it all fit in. You might be pleasantly surprised sound wise by a UK original of the Quartet album if you like the tracks on The Collection from it such as Reap The Wild Wind.
     
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  12. SNDVSN

    SNDVSN Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Anyone went from STY20 to 30 or 40, worthwhile upgrade? Obviously there's a big price jump 20 to 30.
     
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  13. SNDVSN

    SNDVSN Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Reloop state that the Black accentuates the bass frequencies, is it the cart body or stylus that achieves this? Also does the stylus have an effect on the output in mv?
     
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  14. ultron9

    ultron9 Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I've been breaking my Concorde in for a few days now, I didn't find it bass heavy although both frequency extremes are improving. The Reloop black is rated at 5.5mv output but to my ears it's not much different compared to my older TM 20H rated at 3.5mv. Not quite sure why that is. My pre_amp gain is 37db. I will say the Concorde tracks much better and cleaner than my older cartridge. I suspect the body of the cartridge determines output primarily but stylus design may also play a part.
     
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  15. aphexacid

    aphexacid It’s not Hip Hop, it’s Electro.

    Location:
    Illinois
    20 stylus right? I think that’s a great match. I also like the way the pro s/ reloop stylus sounds. It’s a conical stylus but sounds great if you ask me.

    I’d I could do it all over again with the Concordes, I think the 20 is concord/20 is excellent. If you want more, the Concorde/40.

    After I bought the 40, I regret replacing my 30.
     
  16. ultron9

    ultron9 Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    It's the Stylus 20 KAB Concorde...I've heard the 30 stylus and didn't like it as much...I may go with the LP Gear equivalent of the 40 at some point which is less expensive with some improvements. The 20 stylus is opening up now after 4 to 5 days of play.
     
  17. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy Thread Starter

    Yes. The high compliance Stanton/Pickerings work with the G/GAE tonearm, but are far better with the fluid damper. I’ve tried them to some extent without the fluid damping and they tend to skip if they encounter any spec of dust on the record, even with the brush. These are great cartridges, but I don’t recommend using them on the G without fluid damping.

    The Concorde with a 40 stylus, however, works perfectly on the G/GAE arm without the damper despite the listed compliance spec. The damper just improves everything though, so I’d still recommend it with any cartridge.
     
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  18. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    That makes perfect sense. The daily driver cart I use right now has a measured resonance of 9.5Hz on my 1200, so I've been putting off the damper for a bit. I should really prioritize getting one in the next couple of months though.
     
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  19. SNDVSN

    SNDVSN Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Reloop say 5mv for the Black, I also use a ATVM95ml at 3.5mv and I find the volume about the same. I'm guessing output voltage is an estimate?
     
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  20. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Indeed it is. To know for sure you'd have to measure every sample. Output can be a little (or in some cases a lot) higher than what the manufacturer specs on paper. It can be lower as well, but that seems less common. This is likely due to the strength of the magnets used with can be different strengths from batch to batch. Coils are wound on a machine with these carts so that aspect should be well controlled.
     
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  21. ultron9

    ultron9 Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Actually if you look at the KAB site it indicates 5.5mv with any of the Ortofon styli 10 through 40. I do agree that there do seem to be variances between stated and measured output depending on the manufacturer.
     
  22. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I can't speak to the KAB/10-40 combos, but other Ortofon carts have measured higher than spec, e.g. the 2M series.

    The AT VM95s have been measured to have a little over 4mV of output.
     
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  23. luckybaer

    luckybaer Thinks The Devil actually beat Johnny

    Location:
    Missouri
    Reloop Concorde Black vs. Super OM

    Concorde Black is much more low-mid and bass forward than the Super OM. Sometimes the Concorde’s sound profile gets in the way of some of a song’s more subtle elements. That’s too bad, because it is could be a really great body were it not for this fact (at least in my opinion).

    Super OM is very slightly bright in my system. Unlike the Concorde’s presentation, the Super OM’s doesn’t do anything to detract from, or to obscure the music.

    If I wanted to be pithy (or perhaps trite), I could call the Concorde “fun” and the Super OM “analytical” or “revealing.” In headphone talk that might be Beyerdynamics DT770 vs AKG K601. Different presentations for sure!

    I prefer the Super OM over the Concorde, but I don’t think the Concorde is not good. I like listening to my older LPs with both carts, but some of the newer pressings or LPs that are already forward in the low-mid to bass regions are a little tough to handle (for me) with the Concorde.

    I have found that by tweaking the settings on my sub, the Concorde is very enjoyable. I just need to remember to do that when I’m swapping carts or bouncing from one deck to another. Another option would be to insert tone control, but since my tone control box is SE out (RCA jacks), I wouldn’t be able to take a balanced signal to my amp. SE vs Balanced in my system isn’t a comparison I wish to discuss now. :) (They both sound good, but since I can go from phonostage and DAC to preamp balanced, I figure I may as well go all the way to the amp...).

    For now, the Concorde will be fitted with STY10 and it will be assigned (along with 2M Red) to my Kenwood KD-2070. At some point I’d like to upgrade both carts with nude elliptical styli - STY20 and 2M Blue, respectively.

    I’m comparing while using STY40, FWIW, and I’ve played them on my Kenwood KD-2070 and Technics SL-1210 GR (w/KAB Fluid Damper and Cardas Iridium phono cable). I’ve also used both my phonostages - PS Audio NPC and Parks Audio Puffin.
     
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  24. ultron9

    ultron9 Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    A very detailed and informative report on your experience with the Reloop Concorde and I can relate to some of your observations.

    I don't have an OM or Super OM cartridge to make a direct comparison. I'm using the KAB Concorde/Stylus 20 combo and it's been about a week and close to 20 hours of playback. So far the cartridge/stylus combo has opened up considerably and tracking is superb. I feel that the lower mids and bass are not overly emphasized but perhaps not having a sub in the system, my impressions are different in some regard.

    Not having the Stylus 40 also may influence my own impressions.
    I'm thinking I may have to look into a new phono pre-amp with 40db of gain as opposed to 37 on my current unit...I think the performance would benefit accordingly.
     
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  25. luckybaer

    luckybaer Thinks The Devil actually beat Johnny

    Location:
    Missouri
    It isn’t the stylus. I popped my STY40 from the Concorde Black to a Super OM cart, and got a much more even-handed presentation. In my system, at least, the Concorde Black does emphasize the lower freqs. It isn’t bad, but it is very noticeable. I’ve got the Concorde fitted with STY10 now, and it will ride my KD-2070.
     
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