Katy Lied: GREAT Album, FLAWED recording. Pick your poison!!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by SteelyNJ, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. Mr Sam

    Mr Sam "...don't look so good no more"

    Location:
    France
    Two absolute personal favorites are from 1975 - Born To Run (#1) and Katy Lied (not too far behind), and, yes I had to join this forum to realize that the sound was an issue for many.
    Hearing Dr Wu or Bad Sneakers without the hiss and weird sounds would be a shock.
     
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  2. Deek57

    Deek57 Forum Resident

    Sound quality aside my import Kendum cut out pressing is a really nice looking piece of vinyl, all those pretty rainbow patterns, lovely..
     
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  3. onlyconnect

    onlyconnect The prose and the passion

    Location:
    Winchester, UK
    The first-hand account linked by the OP (Katy and The Gremlin ) suggests that the DBX issue was bypassed:

    The two-inch 24-track masters were still sounding good, so we decided to re-mix the entire record using Dolby. ​

    Tim
     
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  4. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic

    Location:
    Sweden
    So are you gonna listen to the files or?
     
    Bern likes this.
  5. mwheelerk

    mwheelerk Sorry, I can't talk now, I'm listening to music...

    Location:
    Gilbert Arizona
    I'm part of the "we" also. If there ever was an album that I had hoped some audiophile mastering might help this is the one. I love Katy Lied. Even with its shortcoming it has always been my favorite Steely Dan album.
     
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  6. CrombyMouse

    CrombyMouse Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    It is an oxymoron to have Steely Dan and "flawed recording" in one sentence.
     
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  7. lucan_g

    lucan_g Forum Resident

    Katy Lied is my favourite Steely Dan album.

    And then I read these threads and think there is something wrong with me.

    And then I listen again and you know what... still my favourite Dan album. Play on.:cheers:
     
  8. jjjos

    jjjos Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    The website also states that the 24-track master was encoded with DBX as well.
     
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  9. onlyconnect

    onlyconnect The prose and the passion

    Location:
    Winchester, UK
    It does; but suggests that the DBX issue was with the mix to two-track, which was abandoned. I agree it is all pretty confused!

    Tim
     
  10. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Aren't you glad to have learned how many things in life you were wrong about since joining this forum?

    :D
     
  11. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    As I recall, Fagen was quoted as saying something to the effect of feeling distraught upon learning of the DBX fiasco because the original recording was outstanding. Maybe that quote appears in the '99 CD remaster liner notes? In any case, I still like the original MCA CD mastering best (e.g., Japan-for-U.S. pressing). The sizzle in Fagen's vocals is odd, but the sound quality and mastering are still good. The music is, of course, first-rate.

    Now I have "Daddy Don't Live in That New York City No More" in my head. Thanks, guys. :D
     
  12. jjjos

    jjjos Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    My thought is that if the original 24-track multis didn't have DBX, this would be much ado about nothing. Why would such a deal (which pressing mitigates the effect more, etc) be made if they just went back to the un-compromised multitracks and remixed to Dolby?
     
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  13. SteveS1

    SteveS1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Weald, England, UK
    Not sounding as good as some other Dan albums and sounding bad are two entirely different things for me. Our host's CD has always sounded fine as does a needle drop of the CSM vinyl I've heard. Love the album.
     
  14. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Bern and Grant like this.
  15. audiotom

    audiotom I can not hear a single sound as you scream

    Location:
    New Orleans La USA
    It goes all the way back to the multi tracks.

    The cymbal splashing has always been the most obvious to me

    Are you with me Dr Wu?
     
  16. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Being a favorite album and having the sonics be off are not mutually exclusive. Katy Lied is a GREAT album, even a monster one.

    Yes, we listen past the sound, as we did on transistor radios, bad earbuds, and .mp3s. It's that many of us here have higher quality playback systems to maximize the impact of the music. It's in that context where we hear the significant flaws.
     
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  17. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Exactly. Hence the title and purpose of this thread!! :)
     
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  18. fast'n'bulbous

    fast'n'bulbous tight also

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Nicely put. I heard about the problems shortly after it came out and they never really bothered me (IIRC the problems were definitely in the masters). In fact, I have always thought of this album as a prime example of how great music can trump technical screw-ups. It is what it is, and always has been; enjoy it.
     
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  19. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    In both cases, the third options sound the most palatable to me.

    You should do one for CD sources.

    Music Hall-5/AT 150mlx|PC, E-MU 0404|CambridgeAudio Azur 640P|Pioneer VSX D514|PolkAudio RT55|Tributaries 12 gauge|MIT 2 & 4,AR Optical,Belkin coax
     
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  20. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Thanks. Interesting observations. I’ll reveal the key with the sources after I (hopefully) get more responses.

    I wouldn’t mind throwing a few CD samples into the mix but again, I’d like to see a few more responses to the vinyl test first.
     
    Grant likes this.
  21. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    Really. If I had not been on this forum and read all the ruckus about it, I would have thought it was just the character of the production. The material certainly eclipses any shortcomings in the sound quality.
    My Kendun pressing sounds quite good actually, and I always enjoy it.
     
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  22. audiotom

    audiotom I can not hear a single sound as you scream

    Location:
    New Orleans La USA
    in the early 80s I used to own a home DBX system for my tape deck

    Then I went to a Nakamichi

    those tapes were useless
    and the process always have some issues.
     
  23. Bern

    Bern JC4Me

    Location:
    Allegan, Michigan
    I'll listen tonight....my fave SD.. (along with The Royal Scam).

    Bern
     
  24. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Thanks. I look forward to hearing your impressions.
     
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  25. lucan_g

    lucan_g Forum Resident

    This is for a different thread... but I often wonder whether there is a point of diminishing returns with audiophile gear. Not in the sense of what you pay vs what you get, but in the sense of a system that is too revealing.

    On the whole, most recordings are not audiophile recordings. But then when they get played on systems that reveal every last detail -- the flaws jump out. Over time, I've come to believe that the best system for me (I'm not saying for everyone) strikes a balance between performance, warmth, AND being forgiving. Let's face it -- I don't listen to music as homework. I listen for enjoyment in a number of different settings... and for me a more 'forgiving' system... one that may sacrifice in terms of exact/perfect audio replication... provides more enjoyment. I'm ok with not having every flaw jump to the forefront.
    Obviously, this is entirely subjective.:cheers:
     
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