Oh, I realize that -- I'm just saying that my listening experiences have been confined to (1) the original LP (I suspect my copy is an original pressing, have to check) through a very questionable rig, and (2) the quote-unquote "fixed" CD version from 1999 through a reasonable setup (Sennheiser headphones, usually). In other words, I've never heard an vinyl version of this album through a really great setup anyway, so many acoustic nuances present in the original LP were probably lost on me.
Not sure if the Canadian pressing used the KENDUN stampers to begin with (a quick check of Discogs didn't help with deadwax) , so the DBX issue would have been compounded by dubs tapes making for a dull end result, which is why it may have sounded like a knock off.
Some interesting info here. For awhile it was my favorite Dan album. Nowadays tied with Pretzel. Never liked Aja nearly as much.
It gives me some degree of personal satisfaction to see that so many feel the way that I do about Katy Lied vs. Aja vs. the other classic Dan albums. Whereas Aja arguably stands at the pinnacle of the band's catalog on many levels, it is not necessarily their "best" album nor does it necessarily contain their greatest musical compositions. Given the "marooned on a desert island" choice of ONE Steely Dan album, I'm probably going with Katy Lied, although I wouldn't be terribly unhappy being "stuck" with any of the others.
I'm spinning the original Kendun as I write......I'm in agreement with many other posters about the sound of this recording. Sure, it has it's limitations, namely with the midrange, but to describe the sonics as "hopeless", "a lost cause", or some other nihilistic descriptor is nonsense. I think this album gets dumped on because we've (audiophiles) come to expect a certain sound from Steely Dan recordings. I don't think it sounds as near as bad as some have described. In fact, I enjoy listening to my original Kendun and my Hoffman mastered cd.
That was one of Denny Dias' theories- "The tapes started to fester" I think was how he put it. Becker, Fagen and Katz didn't necessarily agree, though.
I listened to the samples and you can read my thoughts here: Katy Lied: GREAT Album, FLAWED recording. Pick your poison!! .
Katy is one of my Dan faves. Then again, it’s hard to go wrong with any of the 72-80 Dan albums. What I’d like to hear, is the first/unreleased mix of the album, which Denny Dias describes on the old Dan website...
Ya, not sure that I have a "favorite" SD album. It's not Aja (although a "fine" album, almost too good...) May be Katy Lied, Royal Scam or Pretzel Logic.
I'm pronouncing the Citizen box set to be the definitive CD versions for all the 72-80 records. Simply stunning. I not only heard stuff I've never heard before in the mixes, the imaging was breathtaking at times. Some of the electric piano stuff on Gaucho seemed to wrap itself all the way around my head.
I’ll stick with the original US Kendun. I’m listening to it now in fact. Brilliant album. I can easily get past the flaws and find the greatness. If you wanna dick around with the EQ and whatnot for kicks...grab the original 80’s MCA CD and start with that.
Can we assume that everyone interested in "playing along" has done so? I was actually hoping for a larger sample size but we might be done. Last I heard from @Leonthepro, who offered to compile and summarize the responses, there was one forum member who wanted to participate but was hung up trying to play the FLAC files on his computer. I don't know whether or not his issue was resolved.
If you’re referring to me, I’m okay and responded to the thread. I asked you to post the audio files without zipping and you made a Dropbox folder for me. Thanks again!
You're welcome but it's not you to whom I was referring. Another member originally asked to be granted a little more time and then communicated with @Leonthepro that he needed some technical help with the files. I'm waiting to hear where we stand.
We are still waiting for some folks to do the test, they seem to have difficulty getting the files to work. Ill do a check up on it ;^)
Hey, Friday night I was barbequing in between thunderstorms, commandeered my stepson's cheap little bluetooth speaker to go with my phone and had on Katy Lied while I was grilling the chops. Yep, sounded fine to me too...
Here's the key: Bad Sneakers 1-4: 1- MCA reissue 2- Kendun 3- MoFi 4- Greatest Hits Doctor Wu 5-8: 5- Kendun 6- MCA reissue 7- Greatest Hits 8- MoFi Participant 1 Leonthepro Bad Sneakers: 1. Sample 3 ( MoFi ) 2. Sample 2 ( Kendun ) Good second best 3. Sample 1 ( MCA Reissue ) Close to Sample 2 4. Sample 4 ( Greatest Hits ) Thin and weird stereo imaged sound Doctor Wu: 1. Sample 8 ( MoFi ) 2. Sample 6 ( MCA Reissue ) Good second best 3. Sample 5 ( Kendun ) Close to Sample 6 4. Sample 7 ( Greatest Hits ) Thin and weird stereo imaged sound Participant notes: Initially Sample 7 ( Greatest Hits ) was preferred for Doctor Wu but after discovering and fixing a volume imbalance it was switched with Sample 8 ( MoFi ). The Participant noted that Samples 2 ( Kendun ) and 6 ( MCA Reissue ) were good second best performers with a balanced sound as well as Samples 1 ( MCA Reissue ) and 5 ( Kendun ) being very close to the above placers. Also noted were Samples 4 and 7 ( Both Greatest Hits) as the clear under performers after switching to speakers, with a thin and weirdly stereo imaged sound. Participant 2 Phil Tate ( Much in his own words ) Bad Sneakers: Sample 1. Pretty good, bass is a little harder to follow than the others. ( MCA Reissue ) Sample 2. Maybe slightly better than 1, although a lot more surface noise which distracts a bit and makes it harder to judge. ( Kendun ) Sample 3. Nice. No complaints. ( MoFi ) Sample 4. A lot brighter than the others - I'm guessing this is the MFSL? The only one which sounds radically different to the others to me. ( Greatest Hits ) Doctor Wu: Sample 5. Very good. ( Kendun ) Sample 6. Pretty good, maybe a bit more harsh than 5? ( MCA Reissue ) Sample 7. The brightness makes me think this is the MFSL again. ( Greatest Hits ) Sample 8. A bit flat, doesn't seem to have much life to it. ( MoFi ) Participant 3 Bern Bad Sneakers: 1. Sample 2 ( Kendun ) 2. Sample 3 ( MoFi ) Warmer than Sample 2 but not as good 3. Sample 1 ( MCA Reissue ) 4. Sample 4 ( Greatest Hits ) Thin with no low end vocals Doctor Wu: 1. Sample 6 ( MCA Reissue ) 2. Sample 5 ( Kendun ) Close to Sample 6 3. Sample 8 ( MoFi ) Flat sounding 4. Sample 7 ( Greatest Hits ) Thin with no low end vocals Participant notes: Sample 3 ( MoFi ) was noted as warmer than the favored Sample 2 ( Kendun ). Sample 4 ( Greatest Hits ) was described as thin with no low end on the vocals. Samples 5 ( Kendun ) and 6 ( MCA Reissue ) were noted as close and Sample 7 ( Greatest Hits ) was thin again. Sample 8 ( MoFi ) was also noted as flat. Participant 4 Ostrichfarm Bad Sneakers: 1. Sample 2 ( Kendun ) 2. Sample 1 ( MCA Reissue ) Close or almost equal to Sample 2 3. Sample 3 ( MoFi ) And Sample 4 ( Greatest Hits ) Doctor Wu: 1. Sample 5 ( Kendun ) 2. Sample 6 ( MCA Reissue ) 3. Sample 8 ( MoFi ) Dark And Sample 7 ( Greatest Hits ) Bright Participant 5 Yost Bad Sneakers: 1. Sample 2 ( Kendun ) 2. Sample 1 ( MCA Reissue ) 3. Sample 3 ( MoFi ) 4. Sample 4 ( Greatest Hits ) Doctor Wu: 1. Sample 5 ( Kendun ) 2. Sample 6 ( MCA Reissue ) 3. Sample 8 ( MoFi ) 4. Sample 7 ( Greatest Hits ) Participant Notes: Liked Dr. Wu 8 ( MoFi ) for it’s piano sound, although with underwhelming snares- "What’s interesting is that the 4 Dr. Wu samples show more variation in sound than the Bad Sneakers samples. Which is kind of strange. " Participant 6 Bill Hart Bad Sneakers: 1. Sample 3 ( MoFi ) 2. Sample 1 ( MCA Reissue ) And Sample 2 ( Kendun ) 4. Sample 4 ( Greatest Hits ) Doctor Wu: 1. Sample 5 ( Kendun ) 2. Sample 6 ( MCA Reissue ) 3. Sample 7 ( Greatest Hits ) And Sample 8 ( MoFi ) Biased Study Notes and conclusions: I think these statistics show us a few things, mind you they are in low quantity. 1. The Kendun and MCA Reissue are quite similar in sound. Most Participants had a hard time deciding between the Kendun and MCA Samples noting that they are as good as eachother. Even the ones who do order them the same both times make this note and could easily arrive there by guessing. 2. The Greatest Hits is generally not as good when comparing to other alternatives. Most seem to agree that the sound of this Greatest Hits is bright, thin and out of place compared to the rest of the samples, regardless of what other Samples they evaluated as best. 3. Volume is really important. One of the main issues with this data collection is the unfair treatment of Sample 8, the MoFi Doctor Wu track, but its become an interesting observation itself none the less. People seemed to comment on this sample sounding dark and unengaging including me. We see for example how participant 6 prefers the Mofi track for Bad Sneakers yet it falls down among the worst with the Greatest Hits on Doctor Wu and Participant 3 has no complaints on Bad Sneakers Mofi yet dislikes Doctor Wu. Participant number 1 notes of making the exact same decision until manual correction to the volume was applied. Its an interesting observation and shows how important volume can be to us listeners. This could curiously also explain much of the hate that comes wayward of the MoFi as people might apply the same volume they do for other records when more is likely needed. Sorry for the long wait and apologies for any mistakes made here ;^)
Thank you, Leon, for grabbing hold of the reins and compiling the data from our little experiment. As I said from the outset, my personal feeling is that no version of this album sounds particularly good although some sound "better" to me or at least "different" than others. The RL "Greatest Hits" cuts have been said to sound superior to any pressings of "Katy Lied" but in our little blind test NO ONE preferred or even really liked them. That caught be by surprise as did the revelation that a lot of folks in these forums, who I would assume are more discerning than the average listener, seem to be able to simply "overlook" the inherent shortcomings of the recording...or even more surprising, not notice them at all. Just a few days ago, to once again convince myself I'm not just imagining that this is an inferior recording, I popped my original 1972 ABC pressing of "Can't Buy A Thrill" on the turntable immediately after listing to a few "Katy Lied" tracks. As expected, the older record completely blew away the Kendun KL in terms of sound quality. But sonic warts and blemishes notwithstanding, "Katy Lied" remains near the top of my list of all-time favorite albums. Are you with me Doctor Wu??
