Kef + B&Ws - Serious Listening Fatigue along with Disappointment?

My current TV setup contains 1 amp, 1 preamp, 1 sub, and 2 speakers. What would you suggest for me?

 

Well yes unfortunately you have chosen some speakers with some treble issues that would not be my cup of tea long term either.

In general I would look for speakers that are simpler in technology and IMO more engaging and less fatiguing. You could and probably should try speakers from the following: Being these are all in Canada and that are not bright or hard or fatiguing

Audio Note
Reference 3a (older ones not the ones with metal tweeters currently in vogue)
Totem Acoustics
Gershman Acoustics
Harbeth
Devore Fidelity
Trenner and Freidl

You may need to address other parts of your stereo - but none of these are ear bleeders.

 

Would I have to swap my $1000 Emotiva equipment for a Marantz?

What about speakers sold in the USA as well (example: US online sites that deliver to Canada, but I have family in the US that can get the stuff to me just in case)?
Also do any of these speakers fit this description?: "I can guarantee you they will blow you away, you will hear every single instrument on the record plus instruments you had no idea were on there, cluttered is about the last word I would ever use to describe these speakers. they separate like nothing I have heard."

 

I have BW 702s2. They needed about 100 break in time and then shine. I push them and play them loud a lot. No fatigue.

but these are floor speakers.

 

How far apart do you have the speakers from each other? I'm looking to have speakers I can place within 5 feet of each other.

 

8 feet apart slightly toed in. Sweet spot chair 8 feet away.

Usually there is another carpet between stereo and chair (out for cleaning)

 

My apartment living room is a lot smaller than that (it's 20 ft by 12 ft). My floors are carpeted, the window is behind my sofa, and my TV setup is in front of the wall facing the window. My sofa is 4ft-56ft away from the TV setup and speakers.

 

The other cheaper one I currently use is

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003BQ91Y6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_KbyzFbM5CXAK9

Have very good rating in Amazon. Work decent in my family room with 5.1.2 Atmos setup.

I would say start with this. Do note that speakers, amp, preamp, your source, your room, your position in the room, all can somewhat contribute to the harshness too. Power conditioner is just one piece of the puzzles.

 

That will not happen in your budget so you need to lower your expectations. There is a reason JBL makes a $70,000 + speaker as do many of these others. Stereo systems are a series of trade-off so a speaker system may do certain things better than others. All of these brands I listed are sold in the US and Canada - but to avoid import duties I listed ones I know are sold in Canada that are Not fatiguing. It seems that before any other consideration you need to get one that doesn't sound irritating.

No one can promise you that a speaker is going to hit exactly what you like - all of the speakers I listed all sound different from each other although there are some similarities (like not being fatiguing). The Caveat is that in general they are usually not being run by entry level equipment like Emotiva or Marantz - they usually tend to be driven with various Tube amplifiers.

Speakers do not operate in isolation - the rest of the equipment is a major factor. Unfortunately this also tends to cost more money and requires more involvement in the operation of the amplifier - like replacing the tubes every few years.

My standard advice is to go and listen to as many complete stereo systems as you can - when you find one you like - write down all the components in the system and then buy them. Trying to do this by mail haphazard is not going to be easy because while the KEF LS-50 can sound good - it can also sound quite poor depending what is connected to it.

In general I am a tube amp owner because I struggled for years with the sound of solid state amplifiers and narrow baffle speakers. I sold my B&Ws and my KEFs with no regrets.

 

Another user mentioned that these speakers have excellent separation: Joseph Audio Profile Floorstanding Loudspeakers – Executive Stereo

How does rock, metal, and pop, and hip hop sound with tube amps?

 

I have only Auditioned Joseph Audio a few times - the best combination was with Zesto Audio - but they didn't play hard rock. The speaker I have heard from them was called the Perspective2 Graphene which carry a list price of $15,000/pair. I have heard a standmount from them a few times as well. It's not a sound I am after.

 

I agree with OP, all these speakers you've auditioned sucks in different ways.
blame either cheap xo components, cheap tweeters, cheap cabs, or a combination of compromise made in the design.

and dont let people blame amps or dacs, 80% of SQ is the drivers-speakers

 

Ditch the KEFs and 705s. Build yourself a pair of Seas A26s from Madisound. Not difficult. Doesn't even require any soldering. Line the insides with No-Rez from GR Research for an additional ~$150 and you'll have $5K sound for under $2K, even if you have to buy additional tools like an electric bread knife to cut the No-Rez.

A nice feature is you can tune the treble response to taste by swapping resistors at the binding posts. The tweeter is one of the best performing soft-domes on the planet. The performance even on paper is second to none.

So easy an ape can do it.

 

By "didn't play hard rock," do you mean that the speakers couldn't play hard rock or that whatever place you went to for demoing speakers didn't play hard rock music in their demos? Have you ever personally played rock and metal music on your tube amps? If so, how did they sound (example: too warm, too bright)?

 

Would you suggest for me to get rid of my Emotiva to get another amp, or will that not make much of a difference?

As for speaker building, what beginner guide could you recommend to me?

 

The kit can be ordered with pre-made cabinets and they're of good quality from an American source. All you have to do is cut the foam and line the sides, make the cable connections and install the drivers and binding post cups with supplied screws.

Even with the Emotiva amp they'll sound better than the KEFs but that amp won't extract all they're capable of.

 

So what amp do I need?

Are there any links or a list of pieces I have to get? I also can't seem to find any videos tutorials for building the Seas A26s.

Please elaborate. I have zero absolutely knowledge on what parts, resistors, etc. make a speaker sound great or any of that.

 

The kit is ordered with everything you need to build the complete speakers. The cabinets ship separately from the other parts.

You order them here:

Seas A26 10" 2-way Kit Pair (based on the classic A25)

You'll want to choose the "with cabinets and TD cups" from the drop-down menu. I chose the standard Mundorf Supreme caps because the guy I spoke with at Madisound didn't feel the upgrade to the Silver/Gold capacitors is worthwhile.

The kit also comes with various resistance levels to play with.

As for amps, sky's the limit. These speakers do some things better than the $9K speakers I used to own so it will probably take a very good amp to outclass them. I use the Benchmark AHB2 but they also sound great with my friend's Rogue Atlas Magnum. I suspect these would also sound great with an integrated amp like a Sugden A21 or a Rega Elex-R.

You might instead choose to upgrade your preamp to a tube-based model.

 

The people who ran the room did not play rock - they only play vinyl as a source and they only play the records they bring. So you listen to what they have. That is a problem with their demonstrations.

Audio Note demonstrations that are run by the company owner - Peter Qvortrup - plays DIO, Slipknott, Nightwish, Noisia and music like this at high levels to illustrate that the gear has no issue playing it to leave the room volume levels. When I attend audio shows I bring some of this kind of music and people leave the rooms - although quite often other people have come in to the room as well because it's not Diana Krall all the time. Granted I play a level down from those kinds of metal like music - I prefer the gentler AC/DC and Guns and Roses to the likes of Megadeth.

Tube amplifiers are not all alike so the Audio Note Jinro amplifier is more about ambiance and tone and body so it "softens" metal a little more than my 2a3 amps would - so there are trade-offs even within the tube choices you make. Indeed, to a lesser degree but still noticeable in the SS world.

Speakers have different sorts of presentation so the gush gush high impact bass isn't the sort of bass that speakers I mention are about. But I find long throw woofers to be - fatiguing - and that impact bugs me - it's great for home theater and it can go loud but not for me.

Tube amps typically require certain amplification - higher sensitivity and an easy impedance load - otherwise the sound will compress.

Speakers that are generally noted for their rock ability are the likes of JBL, Cerwin Vega and Klipsch at the more budget range of the spectrum. The Forte model from Klipsch seems to be popular for rock and get good reviews. BUT - the horns can be fatiguing from Klipsch and so they are quite a polarizing speaker.

 

Not a big Emotiva fan being a previous owner. Try those R3's with a decent tube integrated.

 

Also try speakers from brands Dynaudio, Focal, Spendor.
Maybe they will match your room and equipment well...

 

I think the topic goes to anywhere ... recommending speakers in too much higher budget it's not a solution (Focal less "bright" than Kef? Omg)

Will have worst results, the problem here is source / electronics / acoustics ... we have a perfectly refined speaker showing the system caveats ... something that the previous 500 usd JBL cannot show.

You can see at the end of that suggestions appears better amplifiers (even tubes) and acoustics ... I don't know why they didn't mention the source, but ok.

I'll say this the last time and close my participation on this thread ... the Kef R are balanced speakers with great definition and excellent bass response, but as a medium level speaker, it needs a good source (not entry level), a good amplification (not entry level) and take care of the acoustics.

Good luck.

 

do this
me and Helom have quite a lot of experience under our belt when it comes to speakers under the 5k mark.
Ive sold my SHL5plus without much regret after building the Seas A26

The A26 would have competition at around 4-5k, but ive never heard anything comparable near its price in commercial speakers.

 

You need a quality high current amp to get the most out of B&W's. I tried powering my B&W 804's with a $1500 Yamaha home theater receiver, at the time of it's release it was the flagship Yamaha. It sounded terrible and harsh. Once I got them properly powered the harshness went away. I have been gradually upgrading the system behind my 804's since I purchased them and they are very rewarding of system upgrades. And they are unforgiving of weaknesses upstream. If you want those 705's to shine you need a good amp. And a good preamp. A used Parasound A-21 will power them (and any other speaker you want to throw at them in your price range) quite nicely. A used Yamaha A-s1100 would sound great as well. A Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum 2 or 3 would give you the ability to tailer your desired sound by tube rolling.

I disagree with the poster that said 80% of sound quality is the speakers. That may be true if your total budget is $700 for a system. As you move up in budget matching the amp to the speakers becomes increasingly important.

705's and R3's are not harsh speakers if powered properly. I have a pair of R300's in my main system and they sounded fabulous (these speakers need space in a room to really shine. If you can get your R3's over 3 feet from the back walls and side walls the image and depth are fantastic).

 

Please post a picture of your room. If you’re sitting less than six feet from the speakers and have a large window behind you and a glass TV screen in front of you it sounds like most of your problem is acoustics and sitting close to metal tweeters being powered by bright electronics.

As others have suggested, you need to fix your room acoustics best you can and then shoot for a smoother speaker given how close you sit. Speakers with soft dome tweeters would be top of the list for me to demo. The Dynaudio suggestion was a good one (Esotar tweeter). Focus on the room and speakers first, then the amp.