Hello, a new member here, hope I'm not hijacking the thread. I'm searching for new speakers (room 12' x 18', speakers placed on the shorter side, so floorstanders are not the first choice; sources remain CD and streaming) as a permanent solution. My ML Electromotion ESL do not work well in this room. KEF reference 1 are very high on my audition list (incl. Monitor Audio PL100 II, BW 705 Signature, Dynaaudio Special40, Proac Response 2R, maybe BW 805D3). As I can only change the speakers now, I would probably have to keep my amp&source (Marantz PM11 S2 and matching 11 S2 CD player), temporarily or for a longer period. What do you think of pairing with the KEF? Anybody listened to it? I see many members on this thread mention KEF LS 50 and KEF R3, I listened to both last year and liked them both, and preferred R3. They were run with NAD combo (mid-level and HEGEL90, on second audition). Would you receommend higher level HEGEL and NAD amps with the Reference 1? Appreciate your opinions. Thxs, postup
Hello postup, I tried the Marantz PM15 le with my R500 which worked fine. When I bought my Reference 1 the retailer ( Poulissen Roermond NL) used a Hegel 360 which was a very good match. I think the Reference 1 likes high quality amps with a lot of power, especially in terms of delivering high current .
Hello Mr.Sign, Could you please elaborate on the difference in sound when you went from R500 (which I own) to Reference 1? Thank you in advance.
Hello BO_KNOWS, If I try to say it in one sentence, I could say that they have both a similar sound design, but the Reference does it all better. To describe it more defined, I would say that: 1. Bass is faster, tighter and deeper, gives a more detailed sound of the instruments like Bass drum, Double bass etc.characteristics (using the long port). 2.Midrange much clearer, more detailed etc. without being soft or " too nice". 3. Highrange described as the midrange + more extended. 4. Soundstage even better than the already fantastic soundstage of the R 500 ( which is far better than a lot much more expensive speakers of other famous brands). 5. Instruments , single sound events ( like percussion ) are being easily located, focused ( which is one of the strenghts of R500 too, but again betterd by the Ref 1.) All this in a room about 23m². Audition room at the retailer about the same size. When I bought the Ref I could directly compare the two different speakers ( same place, same equipment directly one after the other ) and I was kind of shocked how big the difference to my beloved R 500 was. As my wife ( she is part of all the audtions of our major Equipmemt ) shared the same opinion , the deciscion was done ( although the price did kind of give me some headaches. P.S. both speakers reacted positivley on increasing quality and power of amps, even at low volume levels.
Hello Mr.Sign, Thank you very much for your in-depth comparison. Greatly appreciated. By the way, I love your system. It looks and I'm sure sounds great.
P.S. 2, changed floor carpet today , room acoustic developed ( which was previewed , but not to that enormous extent ! )
Video on the new KEF absorbtion technology. I have read it will first launch with the new LS50, but KEF has not yet said when this will be seen in the Reference series.
Do not discount the Reference 3. You might discount them for cost reason but not room size. I own a pair of Reference 3s and have them set up in a room that is 12 foot wide by 15 foot deep and they sound wonderful. It is a dedicated room for my system so I have the ability to pull the speakers out into the room. I first had a pair of Reference 1s in this room and replaced them with the Reference 3s. If you are going to be pushing your speakers up against the front wall then either the Reference 1 or 3 will be hampered in terms of sound staging which these speakers excel at.
I agree that the Reference Series need high quality equipment for them to produce their best sound. Used with average equipment and they will show case that aspect of your system due to their ability to reveal not only the music but the system the music is being played through. When people complain that the Reference series sounds harsh, metallic and is fatiguing to listen to for an extended period of time, in my opinion it typically is due to a poor pairing of other components in the chain or even cables. I bought a new DAC and tried a high quality silver coaxial cable with it. I connected the DAC to the Preamplifier and found that the sound shifted. This combo created a more harsh or tipped up high end frequency response. I then auditioned a high quality cooper cable and the sound became balanced and lost that harsh or tipped up high frequency. It was an easy decision which cable I went with. Equipment matching is critical as you move up with higher resolving and quality speakers of almost any brand. Once you move to the KEF's Reference Line you need to keep this in mind.
Just wondering what amplification everyone is using with their Reference speakers. Sort of a quick survey. Provide the following information: Make, Model, Power Rating, Type of Amplifier (Tube, Solid State or Class D) and if you are satisfied and if not why. Reference 1 is being driven by an Onix SP3 which is a tube integrated amplifier that produces 35 watts per channel. Reference 3 is being driven by an Opera Consonance Cyber 800SE which are a pair of tube mono blocks that produce 35 watts in the triode setting and 75 watts in the pentode setting. Both systems are not lacking in power, produce plenty of clean quick bass, can play very cleaning at uncomfortably loud levels, and produce a wonderful wide and deep sound stage. Very satisfied but would love to hear what a Pass Labs XA60.8 or XA160.8 mono blocks would sound like with the Reference 3s.
Have posted about my setup a lot in this thread, but I am using a Rega Elicit-R with my Reference 1s. I characterize it as detailed with a touch of warmth. The Elicit-R is only 105 WPC but drives the Refs very well; however the amp can run hot and the Refs can present a difficult load on music with heavy bass. I have only experienced the amp going into thermal protection on two occasions. I love the sound signature, and if I upgrade for more power I may go for the Rega Osiris. If I leave the integrated world for separates I would have to do a lot of auditioning before picking a new brand. I would also love to try a powerful push/pull tube amp, but since the system is upstairs in the attic I want to stay with solid state, something i would feel better about leaving on unattended. I also have tubes in my other systems to keep me happy.
Thanks for responding. What I am hoping is to gather a little informal database on amplification that will work nicely with the Reference Series Speakers so people who are interested in them can view this post and find this info in one place. Interesting to hear that with the 105 watts you feel the system experienced thermal overload which put the amplifier into thermal protection. That is if I understand you correctly. My 35 watts of tube power seem to handle the speakers dips fine, without any apparent stress. They both have very sizeable transformers so I believe this helps keep them very stable. The Reference 3s are using the 8ohm tape and the Reference 1s are using the 4ohm tape. Not sure what difference this makes.
with my ref 1s, i'm using a parasound jc-5 amplifier which outputs a maximum of 400 watts/channel into 8 ohms.
What about this combo is a real standout in your opinion? At one time was interested in wanting to hear how a parasound Halo JC1 might sound like with my Ref 3s.
the jc5 has plenty of power and reserves, so can handle the impedance dips with ease. sound is very balanced across the frequency spectrum and provides a huge soundstage.
Deep I assume as well as wide. How about air/space around each individual performer? My understanding is Parasound leans toward a tube sound, do you hear that also?
yes, very deep and wide. speakers disappear in my setup for all but the worst recordings, allowing individual instruments to float in space. the jc-5 and the ref 1s are not that analytical, so the net result is on the slightly warm side of neutral.
give this album a listen if you have tidal or qobuz (Yuko Mabuchi Trio (CD) — Yarlung Records ) -- on the first song, the group is introduced and the announcer should sound WAY over to the left outside of the speaker -- great example of how big the soundstage can be. of course, with your kefs, you'll probably experience the same thing.
From what I understand the Elicit is biased into Class A and is known to run hot. I have had this system for two years. The two times it went into cutoff were also on hot summer evenings when the amp had been on all day, and while playing bass-heavy music. Generally it is not a problem. As I mentioned I love the sound signature on this system, and the power is sufficient to really fill the room. It is super detailed but also a little laid back, not too forward. Tonally balance is perfect, not bright which I despise. Great midrange and balanced top to bottom. I also love the other aspects of the sound such as the deep, wide soundstage (behind, in front of, and to the sides of the speakers) and laser pinpoint imaging.
Announcer comes on far deep left handside, out of the room deep. Then the applause left then the right comes in clapping to then create a semi- circle of applause as the piano starts right behind the left speaker spreading towards center stage. I thought this was going to be all piano but the drum kit pops in deep right corner slightly past the speaker but we'll behind. Drum kit we'll behind right speaker extending out past both right and left boundaries. Bass appears center leaning slightly toward left but behind the piano. Great recording, thanks.
Being in a warm attic on a hot summers day/night certainly doesn't help with keeping any equipment running cool particularly if you are pushing the set up and really getting into the music at louder volumes. I think the Reference Series are a pretty easy load to drive but they do have that dip.
